Welcome! Please use the navigational links on your left to explore our website.

Company Logo Shop Now
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 
Marketplace
Classified Ads
Photo Ads
Tractor Parts

Community
Discussion Forums
Project Journals
Tractor Town
Your Stories
Show & Pull Guide
Events Calendar
Hauling Schedule

Galleries
Tractor Photos
Implement Photos
Vintage Photos
Help Identify
Parts & Pieces
Stuck & Troubled
Vintage Ads
Community Album
Photo Ad Archives

Research & Info
Articles
Tractor Registry
Tip of the Day
Safety Cartoons
Tractor Values
Serial Numbers
Tune-Up Guide
Paint Codes
List Prices
Production Nbrs
Tune-Up Specs
Torque Values
3-Point Specs
Glossary

Miscellaneous
Tractor Games
Just For Kids
Virtual Show
Museum Guide
Memorial Page
Feedback Form

Yesterday's Tractors Facebook Page

Related Sites
Tractor Shed
TractorLinks.com
Ford 8N/9N Club
Today's Tractors
Garden Tractors
Kountry Life
  
Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
Order Ford 4000 Parts Online

64 Ford 4000 overheated and blew rad cap off

Welcome Guest, Log in or Register
Author  [Modern View]
Dirtsmith

10-10-2019 04:41:24




Report to Moderator

Two days ago, I thought my worst problem was needing to fix the hydraulics.

Yesterday, my new worst problem happened when I was moving rocks (that I collected for a project) from the area where I wanted to put manure composting pile.

I was working the tractor pretty hard, I was moving 3-man boulders. (Maybe I overloaded a ridiculously large bucket...)

Somewhere along the way, I heard a noise that sounded like the fan blades hitting something. Shortly after that, I saw my radiator cap shoot into the air, followed by a blade from the fan shooting out of the bottom, and of course, a bunch of coolant pooling underneath the tractor. There was no sign of the belt, perhaps it is still attached, I'll check sometime this morning.

A few months earlier, the tractor was given a clean bill of health by a long time Ford tractor mechanic. Up to this point, it seems to have run well.

Looking at other posts, I saw something that got me to thinking about root causes.

There is thread here on YT Forums, where an 801 (or 821) owner, had an overheating problem. The condition of the belt that runs the fan and drives the power steering pump came into question.

I have persistent power steering leak issues. The most relevant issue to this overheating problem has been fluid leaking from the reservoir at the seals between the reservoir and the pump body.

What is the chance that fluid got onto the belt and caused the issue that would lead to a fan blade hitting something?

An oily belt, particularly at higher RPM's, could certainly be reason for the belt to slip and go bad. The loader pump seems to need higher RPM's as the loader struggles to lift when I am running the engine a lower speeds. When I am using the loader, I do run the engineer at higher RPM's. Otherwise, when I am pulling something or using a implement, I run it at lower speeds. I have not used this tractor for brush hogging. The tractor spends most of its time in 1st gear. A previous owner removed the Sherman so that is not directly an issue.

As always, I appreciate your time and help.

[Log in to Reply]   [No Email]
RobCons

10-16-2019 16:38:22




Report to Moderator
 Re: 64 Ford 4000 overheated and blew rad cap off in reply to Dirtsmith, 10-10-2019 04:41:24  
You've got it. Pin is a tube. Shaft for pump goes through it and rotates with crank shaft since it is attached to it.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dirtsmith

10-16-2019 11:27:44




Report to Moderator
 Re: 64 Ford 4000 overheated and blew rad cap off in reply to Dirtsmith, 10-10-2019 04:41:24  
Thank you RRR. I appreciate your information.

I am getting hung-up on now this "whole thing" goes together, perhaps you can help me understand.

It appears that the pump shaft runs through the pivot pin and this is where I am having my issue.

Is the pivot pin hollow, which allows a rotating shaft to run through it? Or is it a the solid shaft that acts both as pivot pin and is also the power in-put to the pump (which seems very unlikely), sleeved by a bushing that takes up all of the force where the frame and axle come together?

It seems like that the weight of the loader bucket, the frame and hydraulic rams and the armature to hold and control the bucket not to mention just the weight of the front-end of the tractor itself, is a huge amount of weight to be resting on one pin or bushing.

Can you, or anyone here, explain to me how this actually works?

If the pump shaft is going to be able to rotate freely to power the pump, I can't see how it can have that much weight on it. On the same token, that also seems like an incredible amount of weight for a single bushing as well.

I must be missing something, because this does not add up for me.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
riveroadrat

10-14-2019 18:00:29




Report to Moderator
 Re: 64 Ford 4000 overheated and blew rad cap off in reply to Dirtsmith, 10-10-2019 04:41:24  
Your axle bushing is probably worn also. If you use a torch to heat up the pin (stay away from your radiator or remove it) you can stick a long candle to the threaded area and the wax will wick into the threads. I had to weld a thick piece of 1/2" wall tube to my pin and use a bar about 6 feet long to remove it. You have the heavy duty front axle so make sure you get the right pin and bushing for that axle.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dirtsmith

10-14-2019 13:38:02




Report to Moderator
 Re: 64 Ford 4000 overheated and blew rad cap off in reply to Dirtsmith, 10-10-2019 04:41:24  
Thank you for your thoughts Cowboy. I am looking, and trying to figure this out still. Looking at my manuals - the best I can figure out is that it appears that pump shaft runs right through the pivot pin.

That must be one tough pin to be hollow and take that kind of weight and force on it!

If there is an old-time ford mechanic that can speak to this issue, I sure do want to hear from him as well.

As it is right now. My fan blades hit the frame and the radiator is empty. I will report back here what happens when I pour water into the radiator. I would be absolutely shocked if it is only the fan blade that is damaged (I do not see how it could only be the fan blade.)

Here is the pictures of what I can see.

This photo is (rotated ccw 90 deg) showing a picture of the pump shaft going through the pivot pin. Should those splines be visible?



(This photo did not rotate when it was imported.) It seems to be clearly evident that the pump shaft runs through the pivot pin.



Again, rotatied c cw 90 deg, in this picture I am showing that the shaft appears to be resting on the bottom of the hole it passes through. It seems like that shaft should be centered more than it is shown here.



Thanks for looking. I appreciate what you guys can say about what you see.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
lastcowboy32

10-10-2019 10:47:30




Report to Moderator
 Re: 64 Ford 4000 overheated and blew rad cap off in reply to Dirtsmith, 10-10-2019 04:41:24  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Maybe undo the fan belt.

See if the water pump bearings failed and the fan now has some slop in it. Maybe that's why it's pulled down into the frame.

That would be best case scenario, from what it looks like. The bearings fail, the fan shaft gets loose, the fan hits the frame and now the belt slips, no fan, no water pump, engine overheats.

If the water pump bearings and fan are still straight and tight, then look at the axle pin. That could easily be worn, especially if you're using a bucket heavily. A worn or broken axle pin could change the position of the engine block and fan, relative to the frame.

What I don't know is how any of that changes when you have that front mount hydraulic pump.

I'm not sure if that pump's shaft goes through where the axle pin used to go... or if you will have a pump shaft and an axle pin. That's where the old time ford mechanics here in the forum and your manual should be able to help you out.

What I do know is that I've read more than a few posts here about how hard that axle pin, king pin, whatever you want to call it, can be to get out. I also remember that the failure mechanisim for when that goes is just like you describe. Instant damage to the fan/radiator/cooling system.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dirtsmith

10-10-2019 09:40:02




Report to Moderator
 Re: 64 Ford 4000 overheated and blew rad cap off in reply to Dirtsmith, 10-10-2019 04:41:24  
Hi RRR, axel pin, is that a pivot point that holds the front axel to the frame?

I am looking at my service manual, there appears to be a few steps involved, and that is not an insignificant part either.

Is there any type of visual inspection or another sort of test I can administer to see if that is where I should focus?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dirtsmith

10-10-2019 07:15:08




Report to Moderator
 Re: 64 Ford 4000 overheated and blew rad cap off in reply to Dirtsmith, 10-10-2019 04:41:24  
Hi Ultradog,

The system showed no evidence of recent or current radiator leaks. When tractor was in the shop for an over-all inspection after I took ownership, the old radiator cap was replaced with a new part, and that new part is rated for 4 pounds.

If there was a coolant leak prior to when I became the owner, I cannot be certain. There is a greasy mess in the loader mount frame under the front mounted pump. It appears there was a leak at some time, but I am not certain if there is anything more than hydraulic fluid residue that I am seeing.

The fan itself is attached still, however when I rotated the fan to snap a picture of the broken blade, I could feel, and see, the fan hitting the frame.

So, I am wondering now if something has come loose and caused the fans to slip out of position. I could not get a view of how or where the fan connects, but looking at the two manuals I have, the FO-20 and the Ford Tractor Shop manual the covers Models 600 - 1801, it appears as you suggested, this issue could be related to the water pump.

This picture rotated counter-clockwise 90 degrees, but it shows the pump for the hydraulics and where the fan is hitting the frame.



This photo mysteriously rotated 180 degrees, but it is showing where the fan blade is mounted to the front of the engine.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
riveroadrat

10-10-2019 08:54:55




Report to Moderator
 Re: 64 Ford 4000 overheated and blew rad cap off in reply to Dirtsmith, 10-10-2019 07:15:08  
It looks like your fan is hitting your front axle in the pic. Axle pin might be gone past serviceability.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
sotxbill

10-10-2019 06:47:39




Report to Moderator
 Re: 64 Ford 4000 overheated and blew rad cap off in reply to Dirtsmith, 10-10-2019 04:41:24  
One possible explanation....

The heavy over weight boulders make something flex in the frame/loader,,,, and the radiator got pushed back into the fan... and nature took its course.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Dirtsmith

10-10-2019 06:29:25




Report to Moderator
 Re: 64 Ford 4000 overheated and blew rad cap off in reply to Dirtsmith, 10-10-2019 04:41:24  
Hi Larry,
The loader runs off of a front mounted pump. It is separate system from the hydraulics.



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Larry NCKS

10-10-2019 05:18:16




Report to Moderator
 Re: 64 Ford 4000 overheated and blew rad cap off in reply to Dirtsmith, 10-10-2019 04:41:24  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

My guess is that either your water pump failed causing the fan to disintegrate, or the fan itself failed. This likely is the root of your cooling system problems.

Does your loader run off a crankshaft mounted front pump . . . or does it run off the pump that runs your 3 pt.?



[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
Ultradog MN

10-10-2019 05:18:28




Report to Moderator
 Re: 64 Ford 4000 overheated and blew rad cap off in reply to Dirtsmith, 10-10-2019 04:41:24  
So give us a hint.
Did the fan actually come off??
The whole thing or just one blade?
If the whole fan came off it's most likely because your water pump failed.
That would have nothing to do with your belt or power steering nor much to do with your loader or how hard you were working the tractor or what you were doung with it.
It might have something to do with ignoring a persistent leak of coolant from the water pump tho. Did you notice any of that?
Tell us what actually happened. Where is the fan now and are all the blades intact? Then we collectively can get down to theories and speculation as to what actually happened.

[Log in to Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Log in to Reply]

Hop to:


TRACTOR PARTS TRACTOR MANUALS
Fast Shipping!  Most of our stocked parts ship within 24 hours (M-Th). We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our fast shipping, low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today. [ About Us ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2019 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters

Website Accessibility Policy