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Overheating

G

Gmartin

Member
I have an 860 Ford that?s overheating. Radiator is about a year old.
Removed thermostat to see if it made any difference and it did not.
This radiator looses a lot of coolant out the overflow tube. I can fill it
anywhere from full to 2 inches from the top and it starts running out of
the overflow as soon as you start the motor. Nothing leaking from
water pump & water looks like it?s circulating when I look at it when
the radiator cap is off so I?m guessing it?s not the water pump.
Replaced both hoses when radiator was replaced & ?flushed? the
block with garden hose while I was there. Have not tried operating
without the cap but might try that next. Anybody have any
suggestions?
Thanks(in advance),
Gary
 
first thing I would do is as soon as I start it feel the radiator top hose. it should take 2/3 minutes for it to start getting solid. if it starts to get solid immediately then you probably have a blown head gasket and if your getting water out the overflow as soon as you start your tractor then it could be that. your water level just needs about an inch of water covering to tubes. it will expand with temp and if you fill it to full it will dump water. what does your water temp guage do when you start it. I just got done with a 961 that had the same problem. I flushed the heck out of it. replaced a freeze plug that started leaking. got a lot of rust out that hole. finally got the temp to hold at 230 which is still to warm but a lot cooler than what I had. I finally determine for sure I didn't have a head gasket problem and ordered a new thermostat and radiator. now she runs around 170 all the time. I do leave the level down some as it still gets a lttle pressurized but doesn't spit out any water. if you are trying to flush your radiator you will have to add something to your water such a mean green ,vinegar, soap and water.etc to help clean it as well as to flush the coils from the outside to make sure you have a good air flow though it. good luck.
 
Not getting water in the crankcase and I don?t think I?m getting oil in
the radiator, so didn?t consider the head gasket. What?s the best way
to check the gasket. Compression test? Seams like I had someone
tell me to spray carb cleaner around the head while it?s running. Ever
hear anything like that?
Thank you.
 
I?ll hope & pray it?s not a head gasket & see if I can find some time to fool with it tomorrow. Thanks for the reply.
 
(quoted from post at 20:05:42 09/23/19) Not getting water in the crankcase and I don?t think I?m getting oil in
the radiator, so didn?t consider the head gasket. What?s the best way
to check the gasket. Compression test? Seams like I had someone
tell me to spray carb cleaner around the head while it?s running. Ever
hear anything like that?
Thank you.
Click to expand...

carb cleaner around the head or intake manifold will tell you if you have an external leak on the suction side, but not anything about any internal leaks. If you are not getting any oil in the radiator then the pressurized exhaust gasses still could be forcing their way past a bad head gasket and cause pressure in the cooling system. There are actually tests you can perform for testing for exhaust gases in the coolant that would tell you if that is what is happening.

https://itstillruns.com/test-exhaust-gases-coolant-7885485.html
 
Thanks Sean in PA. I think I?ll try a compression check first and go from there. I?d really be up the creek if it wasn?t for this board.
 

Running out the overflow as soon as it starts running means that your cap is not sealing. Try a new cap.
 

Mine had an elusive overheat problem after I did a semi-restoration. If the other suggestions don't find your problem try enriching the carb mixture. I was just running it too lean.
 
(quoted from post at 16:42:48 09/24/19) I don?t understand but will give it a try and let you know.
Thanks,
Gary
Click to expand...

The coolant cannot go out the overflow without pushing past the seal of the cap, which takes pressure, which takes heat. If it is pushing out the overflow as soon as it starts to run without generating pressure, it means that the cap seal is bad.
 
(quoted from post at 22:02:05 09/24/19)
(quoted from post at 16:42:48 09/24/19) I don?t understand but will give it a try and let you know.
Thanks,
Gary
Click to expand...

The coolant cannot go out the overflow without pushing past the seal of the cap, which takes pressure, which takes heat. If it is pushing out the overflow as soon as it starts to run without generating pressure, it means that the cap seal is bad.
Click to expand...

Pressure can be generated in other ways than just heat. He says that when he starts it cold it immediately begins to come out the overflow, so the most likely cause is a failure in the head gasket where the compressed exhaust gasses are going from the cylinder directly into the coolant.
 
All,
I went to town today (90 miles round trip) & bought a new radiator cap. Now the tractor won?t start. Put battery on charger & will try again tomorrow.
Again, thanks everyone for your help. I am really hoping it?s the cap because it works better for both my budget and my talents.
Gary
 

I'm sorry, but I'm betting there's more to it than just a bad cap. If you have coolant fill 2 inches down and it immediately starts coming out the overflow upon start up, you have a combustion gas intrusion into the cooling system.

The pressure of compression is much higher than the pressure in the cooling system even at normal operating temperature. Whatever is allowing combustion gas into the cooling system is not severe enough to allow coolant back into the engine.
 
> I went to town today (90 miles round trip) & bought a new radiator cap. Now the tractor won?t start. Put battery on charger & will try again tomorrow.

It is not the radiator cap. Best case scenario is it's the head gasket, which is not particularly expensive or difficult to replace. Worst case you have a cracked head, but you won't know until you pull the head to replace the head gasket.

This site sells the <a href="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Ford-800_Head-Gasket-134-172-Gas_EAF6051D.html">head gasket alone</a> for 20 dollars or <a href="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Ford-800_Upper-Gasket-Set-172-Gas_VGFPN.html">with the valve cover and manifold gaskets</a> for 42 bucks. Your local New Holland dealer probably has them in stock as well.
 
> I?ll hope & pray it?s not a head gasket

In my experience, prayers are ineffective when it comes to repairing blown head gaskets. YMMV.
 

MarkB, I don't have a crystal ball like you do. Though you may be absolutely certain that it is not the cap but is instead the head gasket, and I agree that the gasket is the more likely cause, likely does not mean positively for the rest of us, and Gmartin has to spend hours and dollars to eliminate the head gasket possibility. Gmartin did the common sense right thing by eliminating the easy cheap possibility before going for the more likely major possibility. Most likely he had other business that he was taking care of on the same trip as all of us almost always do. Can you please advise where you got your crystal ball?
 
(quoted from post at 07:28:47 09/26/19)
MarkB, I don't have a crystal ball like you do. Though you may be absolutely certain that it is not the cap but is instead the head gasket, and I agree that the gasket is the more likely cause, likely does not mean positively for the rest of us, and Gmartin has to spend hours and dollars to eliminate the head gasket possibility. Gmartin did the common sense right thing by eliminating the easy cheap possibility before going for the more likely major possibility. Most likely he had other business that he was taking care of on the same trip as all of us almost always do. Can you please advise where you got your crystal ball?
Click to expand...

showcrop, if the coolant level is proper and everything else is normal, then there should be nothing immediately after a cold start that would cause enough pressure for the coolant to come out even if there were no cap on the radiator at all.
 
> Can you please advise where you got your
crystal ball?

No crystal ball, just a basic knowledge of
physics. Water has a relatively low rate
of thermal expansion, so thermal expansion
can't explain water blowing out on
startup. So combustion gasses must be
getting pumped into the water jacket.
 

Guys!!! you should be able to start the tractor cold,,, and let it idle with no radiator cap on... It SHOULD not blow out coolant. Removing a cap from a hot tractor can be hazardous, but cold????

And as it idles, you look for bubbles coming out the radiator, normally a sign of a slight head gasket leak... In the case of water being blown out,,, its a fully blown gasket, or big crack in the head... where ALL of the compression is getting blown into the water jacket, and then out the radiator. A fully blown gasket puts up to 120 lbs into the water jacket, and the cap is only 6 or 7 lbs on a stock ford cap, changed to 12 lbs on later models..

SO... if its blowing cold,,, run a compression check to see if one cyl is low,,, or two adjacent cyls are low so you know where to look for cracks when you pull the head off. Hopefully its just a failed gasket and not a cracked block from freezing, or a cracked head from overheating. replacing a cap when it blowing water out is a waste of time and money. And if he got a generic cap, it will be 13 lbs instead of the original 6 lb cap on the 3000...iirc.

Either way.. good luck and let us know what you find.
 
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