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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
Order Ford 801 Parts Online

Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way up

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tysmobiletractor

06-11-2019 07:16:13




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Removed lift cover cleaned and installed all new seals and o-rings.

Now after all that. 3pt works fine and seems to have good power. But whenever it is lifting it is not smooth. shakes while lifting. Stuttering on the way up.

Don't see anything about that in the service manual.

Not like it doesn't work. It could be used, but I would like to cure this if I can.



Any ideas?

Or experience in this symptom?

Thanks

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JMOR

06-13-2019 11:22:52




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-11-2019 07:16:13  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeyou are going to need to disassemble and inspect BEFORE you can determine needed parts.



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tysmobiletractor

06-13-2019 06:47:36




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-11-2019 07:16:13  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Ok, Thanks Keith. That makes sense. I have not had one of these pumps apart before, but from what you said, I can see how it can cause my symptom.

Sorry guys, don't mean to minimize the encouragement that it is the pump, but I need to understand why. How can it produce this symptom. Now it is clearing up for me.

Thanks for all the posts.
So, next is parts.
I see a repair kit on the parts Yesterdays Tractor $36.36

Anyone have recommendations if this should suffice?

Or like Keith mentioned, should there be more replaced....

Thanks

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tysmobiletractor

06-13-2019 06:37:39




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-11-2019 07:16:13  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I'd rather think about the issues and determine what and why before I start the pump removal. If I understand how the pump can cause this, ok yes, then definitely move on to that.



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tysmobiletractor

06-13-2019 06:32:07




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-11-2019 07:16:13  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Thanks



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JMOR

06-12-2019 16:05:09




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-11-2019 07:16:13  
If a cylinder in the pump were malfunctioning, it looks as though you would perhaps notice a 7 times per second pulsation at idle speed, instead of 42 per second if all is well. Could you or I detect that difference? I don't know. Maybe, since we can see the 120 pulse per second of fluorescent lamps.



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keith williams

06-12-2019 20:44:43




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way in reply to JMOR, 06-12-2019 16:05:09  
JMOR,
I am not sure about the math on the pulsations (I don't think you are wrong, I just don't know the gear sizes etc.), I do know that my 64 4000 had a shutter or vibration during it's lifting cycle.
I took the pump down and found 2 of the check ball springs broken. I reasoned that I was getting 4 pistons pushing and 2 pistons feeding back pressure in opposition.
Mine was bad enough that the balls on the lift arms would rattle.
For good measure, I did a complete rebuild with bearings and seals.
The system works great now. (been 10 years or so)
So I am with Dean. Tear into the pump!
HTH
Keith

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tysmobiletractor

06-12-2019 14:21:16




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-11-2019 07:16:13  
Removed the back pressure valve cleaned and reinstalled it.

Still the same.

Oh well. One more thing off the list of possibilities.

At least I know it is clean and functioning.



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JMOR

06-12-2019 13:43:41




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-11-2019 07:16:13  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeI would be a lot more surprised if the cause was the back pressure valve !
P.S. pump is driven off camshaft, not flywheel.



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tysmobiletractor

06-12-2019 12:15:39




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-11-2019 07:16:13  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I'll look at my service manual about this and give it some thought.



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tysmobiletractor

06-12-2019 12:13:03




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-11-2019 07:16:13  
You talking about the main pump running off the flywheel?

I would be surprised the pump could cause this symptom.

But I am asking for ideas.
Interesting theory.



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tysmobiletractor

06-12-2019 12:08:11




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-11-2019 07:16:13  
Got the back pressure valve out. Used a 3/8 20 fine thread bolt and various washers and things to pull it our by the internal threads.

Yes, I said internal threads. This valve has threads inside that can be used to extract it out.

I'm going to give it all a good cleaning and new o-ring and put it back together. See if that cures it.

There was also another valve in the lift piston I had removes some days ago with a fine thread bolt. That one was a 1/2 20 fine thread.
I wish I was better at posting pics on here. I have numerous pics I could forward along.

Never had much success getting them to work.

I'll post back on how it turns out.

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tysmobiletractor

06-12-2019 07:26:00




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-11-2019 07:16:13  
Opened the plug on the pump again this morning while running, lots of good oil coming out. Closed it again while it was running.

Still the same.

Did not seem to help.



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WayneIA

06-12-2019 11:13:00




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-12-2019 07:26:00  
It seams to be time to pull the pump and check up on check valves, springs and etc by removing the six bolts that hold the pump head. The gasket will probably stick holding the head in place but once the head is pried loose , spring pressure will push the head up



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tysmobiletractor

06-12-2019 06:29:22




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-11-2019 07:16:13  
Opened the plug on the pump while running at idle late yesterday,
and let a generous amount of oil out, for a few seconds. May have been some air at first.

May do that one more time today to make sure.



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Old Ford Mechanic

06-11-2019 11:40:11




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way up in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-11-2019 07:16:13  
First thing to do is follow Wayne's advice. Air in system will make the lift chatter and studder while raising. With the engine at idle speed loosen the 3/8" pipe plug on the top front of the hydraulic pump. When it pumps a steady stream of oil with no popping sounds then, all the air should be out of the system. The lift should raise smoothly then. If not then you can go on the other things.



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tysmobiletractor

06-11-2019 09:17:36




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-11-2019 07:16:13  
Any helpful hints on getting the back pressure valve out?....and the valve seat?...

Is there a way to force air behind it to get it to move?...

Seems like the likely culprit since it is stuck. Just would make sense.

Happy to hear anyone elses thoughts.

Thanks



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WayneIA

06-11-2019 10:00:52




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-11-2019 09:17:36  
Let's make sure we have all the air out of the system. Remove the 3/8 plug on the head of the pump and verify the system is fully bled of air.



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tysmobiletractor

06-11-2019 08:56:45




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-11-2019 07:16:13  
Thanks

Thats what makes sense to me too.

No did not use any adhesive or goop on any surfaces.
There was a lot of rust that had fallen into the oil and laying in the butom of the of the sump. Cleaned it all out - flushed it - new oil.

removed everything I could and cleaned - including valves
But the Back pressure valve was really stuck - #20 and 21 in the service manual ....I got the Check valve # 17 18 in front of it out ok.

Didn't want to brake something - so I left the Back pressure valve as is. Partly thinking I could get it out without removing the cover if I had to look into it further.

Other Questionable item. The relief valve in the buttom....Did not remove this. But, not sure if this could cause this?
Also removed the control valve and the unloading valve in the lift cylinder.
Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks

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Dean

06-11-2019 09:20:08




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-11-2019 08:56:45  
It's not the relief valve.

Removing the pump so as to remove the cylinder head to inspect/clean the valves is not difficult.

If you do so, do yourself a favor and order the correct, square-cut O rings for the aluminum hydraulic manifold. Order a head gasket and 2 or 3 paper gaskets/shims for the pump at the same time.

Upon reassembly, verify that all O-rings are properly positioned before torqueing the nuts to proper specs. Do not overtighten. I install grade 8 washers on the manifold studs to better distribute the forces.

Dean

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Dean

06-11-2019 08:21:09




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 Re: Ford 801 3pt issue - not smooth - stuttering on the way up in reply to tysmobiletractor, 06-11-2019 07:16:13  
Valves in pump sticking/non functional.

Did you use gasket goop anywhere in the system or allow gasket material or other debris to fall into the hydraulic sump?

Dean



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