Tractor dead. I now get 12v to ammeter when i turn
the key switch. But now nothing to the starter,
nothing to the push button, and the battery is fully
charged.

Its like this thing is cursed. I?ve gone from what
should have been a simple transmission oil change
to a starter that wouldnt shut off, to the push button
not sending current, to the key switch sending
current to the ignition and starter, to nothing at all.

Brand new solenoid identical to the one I replaced,
everything wired as it has been over past 10 years
and it worked fine.

Its 9:04 AM and i need a drink and Come Get This
for free tractor Ad on Craigslist.
 
Mr. Murray,

I hope you enjoyed your cup of coffee, these frustrating issues can sometimes test us. The most common issue in this situation is an incorrect solenoid. Based on your description of recent events, either the solenoid isn't correct or it was wired incorrectly (I don't think this is the issue). Two solenoids may be identical visually and still be configured differently on the internals. The push button start never sees "voltage" per se. When the button is pushed, it grounds to the tractor and allows electrical current to flow through the solenoid, closing the start circuit and engaging the starter. When released, no electric flow and the solenoid opens the starter circuit. I apologize if this description is unneeded and don't mean to offend if you have a good understanding already. I'm sharing as somebody who has faced the same challenges on old cars and tractors.

Many solenoids will ground through the mounting bracket which will not work in this situation and would keep the starter spinning any time the key was "on".

Chris
 
even though you seem confident, I would bet a nickel that there is a wiring error, or two.
 

If working correctly before, I would suspect wrong solenoid also, or wired incorrectly.

There are two types of solenoids and they work completely different.

The one that uses a ground from the mechanical safety button on the transmission is the "lessor" of the two types out there as all of the car solenoids use a "hot" to energize. Which did you get? Which does the sos require?
 
Wired like this and solenoid like onnleft, ST-542 or equivalent.
JIvoUt7.jpg

v4aFjgr.jpg
 
Thanks to all. I guess i don't have a good
understanding of how all this works. If i have a
picture and i can see with arrows how current flows
and how to connect A to B to C i could cobble this
together. But not knowing how things work and why
puts me into the very ignorant category.

Seems like i want to just pull this harness, find
another, follow a diagram, buy a new starter and
start all over. I just don't have money to keep
throwing it at this without knowing what i am doing.

Im frustrated that i have never been educated in this
or grew up learning this. Its not second nature to
me.

I appreciate all of your help.
 
(quoted from post at 10:13:46 06/07/19) Thanks to all. I guess i don't have a good
understanding of how all this works. If i have a
picture and i can see with arrows how current flows
and how to connect A to B to C i could cobble this
together. But not knowing how things work and why
puts me into the very ignorant category.

Seems like i want to just pull this harness, find
another, follow a diagram, buy a new starter and
start all over. I just don't have money to keep
throwing it at this without knowing what i am doing.

Im frustrated that i have never been educated in this
or grew up learning this. Its not second nature to
me.

I appreciate all of your help.
t gets messy, especially since you mention ammeter and alternator, neither of which your tractor had as it left the factory. So, no telling what the wiring looks like!?
 
Mr. Moore,

Some of those here grew up learning these skills with their family (typically on the farm making a living with these tractors). Others, like myself, decided to study, attempt myself, screw up and stick with it until I figure it out. There is still plenty I don't know, but once I figure a system out, it sticks with me. That said, if everything was working before and all you have done is change the solenoid, it shouldn't be difficult to get back on track. And if more has changed than that, it's not rocket science, it just takes a little time/testing to understand and figure out how to get going again.

So, is the solenoid the only change since starting/running before? or have a few others things changed as well?

Chris
 
I?ll give a run down in order:
1. SOS selector and neutral safety quit working
when put in Park. I tried adjusting the selector for it
to engage without success. Tried many times.

2. Worked around neutral safety switch issue by
disconnecting that wire from push button and
adding wire on push button to ground on battery.

3. Tractor started and ran fine. Worked like a
charm knowing that i need to be careful.

4. SOS early ORC failing in 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 and R1.
Decided to adjust Band 1 and add fresh tranny fluid
and other fluids.

5. New rotor, cap, wires for tune up.

6. Tractor started nicely over past month and
engine fine.

7. After fluid change - went to start tractor after it
sat for a few days. Then - suddenly at this first start
attempt - starter motor would not shut off. Noticed
smoke coning from it (not much) freaked out, and
finally had to pull positive main feed from battery
terminal to right side of solenoid to shut starter off.
The starter was disengaged from the flywheel while
tractor ran and when engine shut down...yet starter
continued to spin. Interesting that when i turned the
key switch off the starter continued to spin although
engine ignition shutdown.

8. Push button was ineffective after this. Replaced
with new one. Thought maybe the new push button
would fix this - perhaps years in weather caught up
to it. But replacement had no effect.

9. Tractor fired up now with just key switch. But
starter kept spinning. Replaced solenoid. Also
replaced key switch as it was old.

10. With new solenoid - same issue. Engine
started, starter motor would not shut down. Pull
cable from battery to shut starter off after shutting
down engine.

11. Started tractor this morning - key switch- but
(push button not working).Pulled cable off of starter
motor to keep it from overheating. Tractor engine
running fine.

12. Shut down tractor. Went to restart, by
connecting cable to starter. Turned key switch, no
power. Everything dead. Battery is fully charged.
Ammeter showing 12v..

13. Gave up.
 
Thank u for your time. Seeing this was a 12v
conversion about 10 years ago - i used a solenoid
that i have no clue whether it is a hot or remote
safety button type.

I suspect safety button type - seeing that this tractor
12v has worked well.

I do not know what to ask for - i know it was a 4 post
solenoid. Maybe i should go back to Napa and ask
them...but these guys don't do anything with tractors
and are on par with me.
 
Last night the new solenoid gave a buzzing sound at one point when I turned the key. Maybe i cooked it or, it shorted and had one last start in it this morning...and it died.

Maybe i cooked the starter too and it gave up.

I just don't know enough to find out what happened or trace current.

I do not like being dumb about this stuff as i was very proud of this tractor.
 
Can u help me understand? Do i need a 542 for a
safety button? or the other? The terminology is a
little confusing. Thank you for posting these
images.
 
Any identifying numbers on the solenoid box, receipt, solenoid itself? If not, use YT Safe-Mail to contact me,then we can communicate by phone & I can walk you thru how to determine what solenoid that you have, but too much to type out here. E-mail is open in Modern View.
 
(quoted from post at 10:47:09 06/07/19) I?ll give a run down in order:
1. SOS selector and neutral safety quit working
when put in Park. I tried adjusting the selector for it
to engage without success. Tried many times.

2. Worked around neutral safety switch issue by
disconnecting that wire from push button and
adding wire on push button to ground on battery.

3. Tractor started and ran fine. Worked like a
charm knowing that i need to be careful.

4. SOS early ORC failing in 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 and R1.
Decided to adjust Band 1 and add fresh tranny fluid
and other fluids.

5. New rotor, cap, wires for tune up.

6. Tractor started nicely over past month and
engine fine.

7. After fluid change - went to start tractor after it
sat for a few days. Then - suddenly at this first start
attempt - starter motor would not shut off. Noticed
smoke coning from it (not much) freaked out, and
finally had to pull positive main feed from battery
terminal to right side of solenoid to shut starter off.
The starter was disengaged from the flywheel while
tractor ran and when engine shut down...yet starter
continued to spin. Interesting that when i turned the
key switch off the starter continued to spin although
engine ignition shutdown.

8. Push button was ineffective after this. Replaced
with new one. Thought maybe the new push button
would fix this - perhaps years in weather caught up
to it. But replacement had no effect.

9. Tractor fired up now with just key switch. But
starter kept spinning. Replaced solenoid. Also
replaced key switch as it was old.

10. With new solenoid - same issue. Engine
started, starter motor would not shut down. Pull
cable from battery to shut starter off after shutting
down engine.

11. Started tractor this morning - key switch- but
(push button not working).Pulled cable off of starter
motor to keep it from overheating. Tractor engine
running fine.

12. Shut down tractor. Went to restart, by
connecting cable to starter. Turned key switch, no
power. Everything dead. Battery is fully charged.
Ammeter showing 12v..

13. Gave up.

Alright, thanks for the run down. To be completely honest, there are sharper fellas than me on this board, but I will try to help.

You indicate transmission fluid change (and others) in No. 4 and follow with good operation for a month. You then start No. 7 with "After fluid change ..." - What fluid change?when?

I assume you are referring to the changed transmission fluid and further assume you drained from the screened port on the left side and filled in the plug location on the upper right side (I added a street 90 iron fitting to make it easier to fill and lets me put a little more oil in).

If you changed the transmission oil as described, there is little chance it affected anything. IF you removed the top cover or changed the transmission fluid some other way, it may have contributed to the problem.

If the fluid change did not contribute, it would seem a little bit of a fluke, but your description points to a continuously closed starter solenoid. IF working properly before, there are only two things that could occur: 1) the grounding side of the solenoid circuit became continuously grounded instead of only when the start button is depressed OR 2) the starter solenoid stuck when started and remained closed (keeping power going to the starter).

No.s 9-11 describe the expected behavior if either of the issues arose.

After hooking the starter back up, tried to start with no success, lost power to or from the ignition switch.

With a volt-ohm meter or test light, follow your voltage and see where you lose it. By that, I mean to test power to the key switch (one side should have power continuously). By putting the key in and turning it, you typically provide power to a "junction block". That junction block then provides power to the coil, gen or alternator, etc. There will almost always be a fuse in the main line between the ignition switch and the "junction block". If there is a fuse in this line, it may be blown.

If you have power at the "junction block", then confirm power to the ignition (i) stud on the four post starter solenoid. If you have power there, check the two large sides of the starter solenoid for power. One will be the line from the battery (which should always have power), the other side will lead to the starter and should only have power when the solenoid is closed. If you see power on both sides of the solenoid without the push button grounded, you know the solenoid is "stuck". This condition can often be temporarily remedied by hitting the solenoid with the handle or a screw driver or something else reasonable small.

If/when you do have power on both sides of the solenoid and the starter isn't spinning, check at starter stud. More than likely you have a poor connection between the battery/solenoid/starter. The motto is "bright and tight". Even bright and tight connections can be poor if using the pinch on ends and they are not installed well.

Lastly, I didn't want to start with this, but as soon as you get past this hump, please take the time to remedy your Park/N safety switch. It does take care to remove the transmission top cover and re-install, that safety switch is crucial in my opinion.

If the gear selector accidentally ends up in ,most likely, R2 and it does start in gear, it will run you or somebody else over before you know it OR back you into something you didn't want to hit. Very dangerous (and trust me, I am not part of the safety police), it needs corrected.

If you don't have a test light or better yet a volt ohm meter, start by getting one.

Lastly and of no consequence right now, an Ammeter will measure current and should be pointed at the zero. If you are seeing volts, you are looking at a volt meter.

Good hunting.

Chris
 
Im going to Harbor Freight tonight to get a meter.
Seems like a simple thing that is testing my lack of
knowledge.

Thank you to each of you for your help.
 
(quoted from post at 18:56:20 06/07/19) If the power to the amp meter is going through the switch that's not right
ome of us are not sure he has ammeter. Maybe voltmeter?
 
The solenoid i purchased from NAPA was:

Brand: Sparex. Fits Ford 2000+. No mention of
600, 800 or 900 Series. This is a later 1964+
solenoid I guess. Wrong one?

Replaces: D2AF11450AA
 
(quoted from post at 20:54:02 06/07/19) The solenoid i purchased from NAPA was:

Brand: Sparex. Fits Ford 2000+. No mention of
600, 800 or 900 Series. This is a later 1964+
solenoid I guess. Wrong one?

Replaces: D2AF11450AA

Yep! Looks like you've got the internally grounded solenoid. For a place to start, you need to find the one that's not.
 
According to this review - its not. I typed in the
replacement no. 311007FR.

Wish this was simple to find.

https://www.amazon.com/TISCO-311007FR-
Solenoid/dp/B00TD9HJNU
 
(quoted from post at 07:19:14 06/08/19) I ordered this from NAPA:

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-
bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ford&th=542017

St542 solenoid.

Not sure what this is. It doesn't take me to anything worth seeing.
 
Got it. Thank you to you and all who have chimed
in. Solenoid coming in Monday afternoon.

Next Issues:

Neutral safety switch. Can those go bad too?

Adjusting speed selector to right gear.. out os sync
right now.

Working on remote valve leaks for front end loader

Transmission replacement...finding a later direct
drive clutch SOS.

Sheetmetal reatoration.
 

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