75 Ford 3000-Radiator Support and Throttle Return Springs

Jeepjeepster · May 22, 2019

Two separate questions here.

What holds the radiator besides the two bolts at the bottom? Nothing? Does the foam that should be along the shroud hold the top of the radiator from bouncing around? Ive got about a ~1" gap around the top of my radiator. I was working on the tractor yesterday and took it for a drive with the hood off. The radiator was really moving back and forth at the top when the engine was under load. Bolts are nice and tight and it does have the rubber pads, those were missing but I just replaced them.

Second question. I think Im missing some springs on for the throttle (gas engine). Since Ive had the tractor it would die when you tried to return to idle speed. After 4 years I finally looked into it and it turns out the idle screw just wasn't turned out enough. :roll: Now you can go from 2,000 rpms right to idle and all is well. If you come down slowly it wont fully come down to idle. I see a spring around some linkage from the governor but there isnt a spring to pull the throttle closed aside from a rigged up spring around the foot throttle socket and the fuel shut off. I see item 24 in the drawing but cant find it for purchase. I think 24a is in place. Any tips? Photos of what it should have would be awesome! Would be nice to see how the fuel line was originally setup going to the carb also. Did a 75 have a sediment bowl?

Mike(NEOhio) · May 22, 2019

There should be a rod from the ball at the left end of your spring that runs to the bell crank on the block. I don't see how that setup can work at all with that spring hooked to the fuel shutoff. What pulls the throttle open?

sotxbill · May 22, 2019

Technically the top radiator hose is about the only support than the bottom bolts, and it works well... the foam was to keep the only cold air flowing through the radiator.

the spring is used only when a throttle pedal is mounted on the running board to make the bottom bell crank return to idle. the top bell crank is attached to the hand throttle and uses the friction disc to hold in position or..... maybe I have it backwards...

If you no longer have the pedal on the running board, you can do away with the spring.

Jeepjeepster · May 22, 2019

(quoted from post at 06:24:55 05/22/19)
Technically the top radiator hose is about the only support than the bottom bolts, and it works well... the foam was to keep the only cold air flowing through the radiator.

the spring is used only when a throttle pedal is mounted on the running board to make the bottom bell crank return to idle. the top bell crank is attached to the hand throttle and uses the friction disc to hold in position or..... maybe I have it backwards...

If you no longer have the pedal on the running board, you can do away with the spring.

If I removed the spring the throttle butterfly wont fully close. The engine will stay around 1,000+rpms. The drawing on new hollands wedsite shows a spring with and without the foot throttle. I just dont know how to purchase the spring and where it physically goes.

Mike, when you pull the lever back with your hand it opens the throttle.

Destroked 450 · May 22, 2019

(1) I don't think you have a 3000 model ag tractor.
Very few 3000's came with foot throttles.
I also see yellow paint under the blue in several areas making me think you could have a 3400 utility model or one of the other 3000 industrial models.
(2) Diesel models have a short top radiator hose that helps to prevent the top of the radiator from moving around much, the crankcase vent pipe for a diesel runs down the right front side of the engine and bolts to the timing gear cover.
On gas models the top radiator hose doesn't do much to prevent the radiator from moving, but on gas models the crankcase vent pipe runs across the left side of the fan shroud and has two tabs that bolt to the shroud.
If you have the proper vent pipe and it's secured to the fan shroud along it the shroud secured to the radiator the radiator won't move around much at all.
(3) On models with a foot throttle the return spring is mounted under the fight foot board.
Can't attach a link but on NH site section 09C04 it's item #35.
The throttle controls are different for models with foot throttles, if you don't have the foot throttle linkage to connect at the hand throttle pivot there's nothing to make the throttle linkage return the engine back to idle. Probably the reason for the jury rigged spring connected to the fuel shutoff valve.
You'll need to reconnect the foot throttle linkage or find the proper hand throttle linkage for a tractor without foot throttle.

Destroked 450 · May 22, 2019

(1) I don't think you have a 3000 model ag tractor.
Very few 3000's came with foot throttles.
I also see yellow paint under the blue in several areas making me think you could have a 3400 utility model or one of the other 3000 industrial models.
(2) Diesel models have a short top radiator hose that helps to prevent the top of the radiator from moving around much, the crankcase vent pipe for a diesel runs down the right front side of the engine and bolts to the timing gear cover.
On gas models the top radiator hose doesn't do much to prevent the radiator from moving, but on gas models the crankcase vent pipe runs across the left side of the fan shroud and has two tabs that bolt to the shroud.
If you have the proper vent pipe and it's secured to the fan shroud along it the shroud secured to the radiator the radiator won't move around much at all.
(3) On models with a foot throttle the return spring is mounted under the fight foot board.
Can't attach a link but on NH site section 09C04 it's item #35.
The throttle controls are different for models with foot throttles, if you don't have the foot throttle linkage to connect at the hand throttle pivot there's nothing to make the throttle linkage return the engine back to idle. Probably the reason for the jury rigged spring connected to the fuel shutoff valve.
You'll need to reconnect the foot throttle linkage or find the proper hand throttle linkage for a tractor without foot throttle.

Jeepjeepster · May 22, 2019

(quoted from post at 08:30:57 05/22/19)
(1) I don't think you have a 3000 model ag tractor.
Very few 3000's came with foot throttles.
I also see yellow paint under the blue in several areas making me think you could have a 3400 utility model or one of the other 3000 industrial models.
(2) Diesel models have a short top radiator hose that helps to prevent the top of the radiator from moving around much, the crankcase vent pipe for a diesel runs down the right front side of the engine and bolts to the timing gear cover.
On gas models the top radiator hose doesn't do much to prevent the radiator from moving, but on gas models the crankcase vent pipe runs across the left side of the fan shroud and has two tabs that bolt to the shroud.
If you have the proper vent pipe and it's secured to the fan shroud along it the shroud secured to the radiator the radiator won't move around much at all.
(3) On models with a foot throttle the return spring is mounted under the fight foot board.
Can't attach a link but on NH site section 09C04 it's item #35.
The throttle controls are different for models with foot throttles, if you don't have the foot throttle linkage to connect at the hand throttle pivot there's nothing to make the throttle linkage return the engine back to idle. Probably the reason for the jury rigged spring connected to the fuel shutoff valve.
You'll need to reconnect the foot throttle linkage or find the proper hand throttle linkage for a tractor without foot throttle.

You are indeed correct, it is a 75 3400. Ive gotten in the habit of saying its a 3000 as anyone I talk to has no clue what a 3400 is.

Makes sense with the radiator! Thanks for explaining that. Ive been on the hunt for a crack case ventilation tube for awhile now, cant find one.

Maybe it was wrong but I was told the linkage is the same with or without the foot throttle. It appears this tractor suffered some sort of heavy impact to the right side and I imagine at the time the foot throttle was taken off. Would the foot board be the same with or without a foot throttle? Ive never see the foot throttle for sale, I imagine thats almost impossible to find.

Heres the drawing:

Destroked 450 · May 22, 2019

Your photo is from section 09C01 which is the hand throttle control.
Notice that the throttle arm, item #6 clamps to the hand throttle control lever, it also sets in a notch in item #11 that rides against the friction disc.
Now look 2 sections down at 09C04 which is the foot throttle controls you have, the throttle arm, item #5 freely pivots on the hand throttle control lever, item #11 clamps to the hand throttle but only has one tab for the hand control to increase the engine rpm's, this setup relies on the foot throttle return spring, item #35 to move the throttle linkage back to idle position.
Without any of the foot throttle controls someone jury rigged that spring to move the linkage back to idle position.
You'll need to find the correct parts to convert to hand throttle only control, find all of the foot throttle components to reinstall.
Foot throttle controls are hard to find for those models.
Some home engineering with a welder could also be done, but that's something I'm not a big fan of.

Mike(NEOhio) · May 22, 2019

Pics are of my '72 2000. I'm not familiar with the foot throttle if that's what you have. Same rod in both pics.

Jeepjeepster · May 22, 2019

(quoted from post at 11:26:00 05/22/19) Pics are of my '72 2000. I'm not familiar with the foot throttle if that's what you have. Same rod in both pics.
<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto23941.jpg">

<img src="https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cvphotos/cvphoto23942.jpg">

Thanks for the pictures. Mine has the spring in your photo.

So what returns the engine to idle if it had just the hand control? Shouldnt Mikes have another spring somewhere? Like item 24?

Sean in PA · May 22, 2019

So what returns the engine to idle if it had just the hand control

It doesn't return to idle on its own with just a hand throttle. The friction disk holds it in whatever position you move the handle to and the governor then tries to keep the rpms constant. When used as an agricultural tractor to plow fields and other things, they generally were run at a constant rpm most of the time and you set the throttle to whatever working rpm you wanted and left it there.

Jeepjeepster · May 22, 2019

Mine functions like you describe but when you push the hand throttle back to idle, what closes the butterfly in the carb? Thats the issue Im having, if I quickly push the hand throttle to idle all is well... if I slowly bring it down to idle it wont fully idle down; it stays somewhere around 1,000rpms instead of going on down to 700 or so.

Mike(NEOhio) · May 22, 2019

Jeepster, rereading your description I think I get it now. Mine does the same thing. I think it's the length and play in the governor lever rod, the on with the spring and plug in my second picture. I have set it to the exact length called for and that leaves some play between the plug and bell crank where the spring hooks on. Never been able to get rid of it completely.

Mike(NEOhio) · May 22, 2019

When you pull back on the throttle control #14 pulls the bellcrank (16 or 16A) which pulls on the rod (24 or 25) and pulls the governor arm. The arm then pushes the carburetor rod (27) to open the butterfly.

Dr ken · May 23, 2019

the governor pulls the carb closed with out the need of any extra springs Maybe linkage adj. from governor to carb? or a worn throttle shaft not positioning the butterfly correctly. When you slowly close it it might be letting in air. when you let it close fast it might shut tight bringing it to a nice idle.

Jeepjeepster · May 23, 2019

(quoted from post at 02:16:25 05/23/19) the governor pulls the carb closed with out the need of any extra springs Maybe linkage adj. from governor to carb? or a worn throttle shaft not positioning the butterfly correctly. When you slowly close it it might be letting in air. when you let it close fast it might shut tight bringing it to a nice idle.

Thanks Dr Ken, I do believe you are correct. Turns out I was looking at the NH diagram incorrectly. I was looking at the 66-68 diagram.... Mine doesnt have a spring like those so it seems Im not missing anything and you are correct in that the governor pulls it closed. Throttle shaft should be good as it appears it has a newer zenith carb but Ill check it for play.

Ill also check the linkage.

75 Ford 3000-Radiator Support and Throttle Return Springs

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