In frame engine overhaul on a 3400 gas help appreciated!

greymond

Member
I decided to go ahead an attempt to freshen things up on this old tractor. I pulled the bucket off and next is the top end of the motor.
I am unclear where to disconnect the steering in order to drop the oil pan.
in the photo is it the red circle at the front or the red circle at the rear? If not those how does it come apart?
I'll post plenty of pictures for those interested or those who might be considering doing this job
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(quoted from post at 20:49:26 05/01/19)
I am unclear where to disconnect the steering in order to drop the oil pan. In the photo is it the red circle at the front or the red circle at the rear?

Red circle at the rear. Your choice of one side or the other. Support the transmission so it will hold the weight of the tractor. Separate the rod end from the pitman arm and disconnect the radius rod below. Unbolt the front bolster. If you opted for the left side rod end and radius rod, you can swing the entire assembly to the right side of the tractor, leaving the right rod end and radius rod connected. I left out a few steps, like removing the radiator hoses. You'll see what else I missed when you get started. Bottom line is the bolster and axle will swing away and swing right back if you have the floor space.
 


I pulled the front of the motor off and the valve cover. This tractor was running rich and puttering out the exhaust. I did a leak down test and a compression test and found leakage in the cylinders and low compression. Hence the overhaul. The exhaust smells like fuel and the plugs are pretty sooty. I replaced just about everything about a year ago. New carb, coil, points and condenser, head was done, new fuel pump, new exhaust. Always ran rich and I did various things to correct it to no avail.
Below are a few photos..


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I see the fuel lines have been replaced - are you still using the pump?

I did something similar to a 4500 three years ago, clean up, full tune up, new carb, valve adjust, etc - the rings are so worn on it that I could grab the front pulley with my hand and turn the engine - I had to attach a hose to the crankcase vent and route it to the back of the tractor so as to not breathe the crankcase excrement - that said, it starts easy and runs well, tho I'm sure it's low on power - it does what I need it to do -

Where did you get your carb? did the seller match it to your engine? I recall there being a lot of choices when I was shopping for mine and I found a fellow who knew what he was doing and could tell me exactly what I needed, altho it was not cheap -
 
(quoted from post at 01:46:25 05/03/19) I see the fuel lines have been replaced - are you still using the pump?

I did something similar to a 4500 three years ago, clean up, full tune up, new carb, valve adjust, etc - the rings are so worn on it that I could grab the front pulley with my hand and turn the engine - I had to attach a hose to the crankcase vent and route it to the back of the tractor so as to not breathe the crankcase excrement - that said, it starts easy and runs well, tho I'm sure it's low on power - it does what I need it to do -

Where did you get your carb? did the seller match it to your engine? I recall there being a lot of choices when I was shopping for mine and I found a fellow who knew what he was doing and could tell me exactly what I needed, altho it was not cheap -

I can see junk spit out the PVC breather on the valve cover from time to time LOL. I should have done what you did but it doesn't bother me that bad. I bought my carb from Yesterdays Tractors. I talked with a few people that recommended that carb for my engine. This rig was running like crap before I bought the new carb. The old carb was so warped it was leaking gas.
 
sorry yes still using the pump and the fuel lines were leaking I had to replace them. Couldn't find the originals for sale
 
I hope you find your cylinders in good shape for a hone - it's hard to find a place to stop, that's why I only did the superficial on my 4500 - I kinda love it, but it's not worth the price of a renewed engine, not to mention the work - it is one heavy lumbering tank of a tractor -


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(quoted from post at 02:55:34 05/03/19) I hope you find your cylinders in good shape for a hone - it's hard to find a place to stop, that's why I only did the superficial on my 4500 - I kinda love it, but it's not worth the price of a renewed engine, not to mention the work - it is one heavy lumbering tank of a tractor -


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I will find out tomorrow morning. if things look good I'll do the hone. If they look bad I'll send it down the river.
 
In the pics below what has to be freed in order to "swing the front around"? do I need a pitman arm puller if that has to come off? And which side is easier to deal with?
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Too bad you don't have a diesel.
I have a couple sets of brand new 175
diesel pistons I'd like to sell -
complete with rings and pins.
Would let a set go for a C Note plus
shipping.
 
yes that is too bad. I haven't ordered the kit just yet. Still haven't pulled the head off. I need more coffee this morning.
 
(quoted from post at 16:05:06 05/03/19) yes that is too bad. I haven't ordered the kit just yet. Still haven't pulled the head off. I need more coffee this morning.

Update! Wow well, the engine has been bored over I am guessing .40 My caliper measurement was 4.25 and I borrowed a cylinder bore gauge set to 4.20 and it wouldn't contact the two points. I had it set up at the shop 40 miles away and didn't have the next gauge up so I couldn't put the bore gauge on it. So now I am not sure what to do. I could pull the engine, sleeve it and bring it back to 4.20 standard bore and go from there. But I am grappling with doing an engine rebuild on this thing. It is old and wearing out. Everything works. It had a new clutch put in right before I bought it. The breaks are bad and there is some slop in the front steering.
I put about a $1000 into new parts only last year. What to do now I surely dont know?

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Take the tie rod loose from the pitman arm - they make tools, but I loosen the nut, leaving it to protect the end of the threads, and using a 2 pound hammer to back the eye, hit the other side of the eye with a similar size hammer. A few good hearty swings and the tie rod will pop loose. Remove the nut and swing the tie rod out of the way.

if your cylinders are not ridged too much you can hone and oversized rings are available (how much is too much? It may depend on the condition of the bearings...)

Either the front or rear seal leak?

After you drop the oil pan, you can pull a main bearing cap and examine the bearing - if it looks acceptable, pop the pistons, hone the cylinders, do a valve job and put it back together - new rings of course, rod bearings depending on condition - if your mains are acceptable likely your rods will be too -

If the bearings look bad, you have some deciding to do -

good luck -
 
that's a big help! Thank you for that. Made me feel a little less anxious about getting this done. And thanks for the help with the linkage. There are quite a few bolts and I wasn't sure where to start on those.
 
I will post some pictures later today - I am not intimately familiar with a 3500, but do understand that the front axle must be moved for the oil pan to be dropped, it seems like I've read where it can just be loosened and pried forward 2-3" to clear the pan? If that's the case you might not have to loosen the tie rod ends at all. I'm not sure.

Be careful - this stuff is heavy - work safe -
 
Hard to tell from here but it doesn't
look like you have a lot of ring ridge
in that bore. Can you give us an idea
how much?
A lot of folks insist on doing a
Complete reman on one of these engines -
to the tune of $1500 or so.
You can call me a cheap arse but knowing
how little many of these tractors will
get run I have no qualms about spending
a few hundred in new rings, rod
bearings, gaskets and a valve job and
get many years of service out of it.
 
(quoted from post at 11:56:08 05/04/19) Hard to tell from here but it doesn't
look like you have a lot of ring ridge
in that bore. Can you give us an idea
how much?
A lot of folks insist on doing a
Complete reman on one of these engines -
to the tune of $1500 or so.
You can call me a cheap arse but knowing
how little many of these tractors will
get run I have no qualms about spending
a few hundred in new rings, rod
bearings, gaskets and a valve job and
get many years of service out of it.
The ridge is roughly 1/2" from the top down and doesn't seem like much. I can hook my fingernail on a little ridge. I may hone it down, put a new set of .40 rings, bearings and leave er go. I think based on the age and possible future headaches with the this tractor I'll go that route.
 
Everything is separated. Bolts on the pan are out but I can't get it to budge. Ive done hundreds of stuck oil pans but this is thee worst. I cant imagine I am missing a bolt or nut somewhere? Or is there some trick to getting it off? I don't want to damage the surface by prying in-between the block and pan...

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Not sure if there's any bolts up inside the cavity between the two rear bolts that go thru the bell housing or not.
Sharpen a old screw driver and drive the blade between the pan and the block, just removed a cast pan from a 256 using that method, it was on there tight.
 
(quoted from post at 21:27:39 05/04/19)
Not sure if there's any bolts up inside the cavity between the two rear bolts that go thru the bell housing or not.
Sharpen a old screw driver and drive the blade between the pan and the block, just removed a cast pan from a 256 using that method, it was on there tight.
I laid under there with my LED light and gave it a good looksee. I didn't see any other bolts. That sharpen the screwdriver trick is my last resort. Ive seen a few damaged pans and blocks from doing that. Mostly on old Cummins motors.
 

I usually drive it in at the rear flange of the block, gives me a flat surface to start at, I've never cracked one of those pans but I have had to file a rough spot down that the screwdriver made.
 
(quoted from post at 22:47:49 05/04/19)
I usually drive it in at the rear flange of the block, gives me a flat surface to start at, I've never cracked one of those pans but I have had to file a rough spot down that the screwdriver made.

Got it! that was a total PITA. On to the pistons. Some metal flake on the bottom along with decades of sludge. The screen was nice and clean.
I dont know why people working on these things dont replace those pan bolts with bolts that go from the bolster to the pan instead of the pan to the bolster. Bolts instead of studs? Never read anyone doing that. That would eliminate that 5 inch forward travel the thing has to make to get it to free up.
Furthermore I will post up a bunch of photos of what I did to get it to separate. There is virtually NO info on how to do that. I have two manuals and NEITHER says jack doodley squat about it. And the internets say virtually nothing.
 
Did a ridge ream job to alleviate damaging the pistons on the way 0ut. A slight ridge but not much. Only took a few passes to clean it up.
That oil pan is no joke! I expected to find gold inside as hard and as heavy as the thing is.

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getting things back together. I honed the cylinders and got them relatively even. Bead blasted the old pistons and I used this old time tool to clean carbon out of the piston ring area. Bearings looked great!
The only issue I have is the placement of the distributor. When I got the tractor the old distributor was out of it and it was laying in a box. The motor hadn't been turned over without the distributor out (at least not since I have had it). I had to buy a new dizzy. The old one was cracked and all the internal threads were stripped. I used the manual and a couple suggestions from old time mechanics on getting it back in the right spot. There were no marks on anything. I stabbed it with TDC on the compression stroke and meshed it with the rotor ending up pointing at number #1. Hopefully number #1 is in the correct location. If anyone has any ideas on where exactly the dizzy sits when it is finally installed that would help.
YEsterday I got the head back on and everything buttoned up. Fresh oil and coolant. I came down with a cold and the rain set me back a bit from getting it started. I'll hopefully get it fired up tomorrow.
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My worst fear is firing this thing up and having the timing off and flooding the cylinder with too much gas and glazing my new honed cylinders
 
(quoted from post at 23:22:49 05/21/19) My worst fear is firing this thing up and having the timing off and flooding the cylinder with too much gas and glazing my new honed cylinders

Up and running! Great compression. Runs like new pretty much. Much more power than before the rebuild. Took it for a spirited ride to help break the rings in. No more hesitation or stumbling. Fires up after only a couple cranks. Almost a different tractor!
 
(quoted from post at 16:51:07 05/02/19)

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Hey Greymond, would you mind taking a closeup pic of what that spring is attached to? Im wondering if mine is missing that spring and Ive yet to figure out if my 75 3400 should have it.

Thanks!
 
That spring connects to a little post on the side of the intake. If that pictures isn't helpful I can get another one.
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Thanks! That should be fine, Ill have to see if mine has a post to put the spring on.

Gotta find the spring too, seems NH no longer sells it....
 
(quoted from post at 14:09:24 05/23/19)
Thanks! That should be fine, Ill have to see if mine has a post to put the spring on.

Gotta find the spring too, seems NH no longer sells it....

Check these dudes out.. http://www.crosscreektractor.com/default.aspx?page=customer&file=customer/crcrtr/customerpages/used-ford-3000-tractor-parts.htm

looks like they have a plethora of fords in there
 

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