Ford 4610 Starting problem (Possible engine)

nhpioneers

New User
We have a 1985 Ford 4610 3 cylinder diesel 4x4 which we brought to our local tractor dealer to fix. When they returned it they started it and drove it off of their trailer. I drove it up our driveway which is 3/4 of a mile long. Just as I got into the driveway - which is on a hill- it stalled because I didn't push the clutch down fast enough. I let it roll back and then left it there. When we went to start it the engine wouldn't turn over. We have taken off the starter and had that checked because 3 people told us it had to be that. Nope, that's fine.

The repairman from the tractor dealer stopped up and told us it was the engine. Is it really possible that an engine to seize this quickly from stalling. Or does anyone have any idea what we can do to test this and see if there is something else wrong?
 
Something sounds very fishy here, as those 3-cylinder Fords are about as tough as they come. What EXACTLY was done to the tractor while it was at the dealer?
 

Those 3 cylinder Ford engines don't just lock up, about the only thing that will cause that is not oil in the pan or a striped oil pump drive.
The oil light on the dash should have came on before the engine stalled if it lost oil pressure.

When you try to start it does the starter make a loud clack and not crank to engine or does it not make any sound?

Not sure if this tractor is new to you or not but did you make sure to have the transmission range shifter in neutral, if not the neutral safety switch will prevent the starter from engaging.
 
I assume you checked to make sure it has oil in the engine? What repair work was done at the dealer?
If you have the starter off, can you turn the engine over with a pry bar on the ring gear?
 
We have had the tractor for about 25 years so not new to us. It stalled because I had it in 4th gear and put the brake on quickly and didn't get the clutch in fast enough.
The engine doesn't turn over. The starter tries but the engine seems to be locked up. My husband is convinced the engine is seized but I'm not. Too coincidental that it could happen
that quickly from stalling in our driveway.

We have had quite a few guys here who are somewhat experienced. Some with skidders and other machinery. We were told by 3 people it had to be the starter but that has been taken
off 3 times and brought in- and it's fine. All of the battery cables have been cleaned up and checked. They even tried to jump start it with a big truck which would have had plenty of
juice.
We are just at our wits end. One guy thought it might be the clutch??? Could this happen?
 
I am assured that there is oil but the engine doesn't turn over at all. Sounds like the starter is trying to get it to turn over but it doesn't.
 
Just because the starter spins freely on the bench does not mean it will turn the engine over. So, don't rule out the starter just yet.

That said, grab a 1-1/8" socket and put it on the front of the crankshaft pulley and see if you can turn the engine over by hand. If you can, you've got starter and/or cable issues. If not, it sounds like your engine is locked up.
 
If the engine truly is seized, it can most likely be rebuilt for cheaper than the cost of another engine. We're working on a 4000 right now that needed a crank, which we found online for $450.

The only way you'll know for sure is to take it apart and see what's good and what's not.
 

As Bern said try to turn the engine with a 1 1/8" wrench or socket on the crank pulley.
Try to turn it ether direction, if it won't turn at all the engine is locked up for some reason.
If it'll rotate backward pull the injectors out and crank it over.

Are you trying to start it with the clutch pushed in just in case something has caused the trans to lock in two gears at the same time.
 
I took a starter to the rebuild shop two weeks ago. The proprietor pronounced it fine. I knew it wasn't. When I told him I thought otherwise, he opened it up and found out it was burned up. So, as previously stated, the problem could be your starter.

Batteries short out internally sometimes but you said you tried jumping it to no avail. A bad battery can cause a starter to burn up, so back to bad starter.

The tractor rolled backwards on your driveway so the clutch works. I assume you had the clutch depressed and the tractor was out of gear when you tried to start it so the neutral safety switch was disengaged.

Hard to believe your engine seized. You can stall those 3 cylinders all day long. That's the beauty of having a diesel.

Hard to believe you have a seized injection pump or seized hydraulic pump but anything coupled to the crankshaft can keep the engine from turning over. So, like Bern says, see if you can turn the engine over first.

I haven't heard anyone suggest turning it around and heading down hill to see if you can roll start it in 4th gear. That would pretty much take you back to a bad starter again.

Don't give up. Your skepticism is heading you in the right direction.
 
Thanks for the info. We were told the mechanic tried to turn the engine with the socket. Still very strange that an engine could seize so quickly and right as we got it back. So if the engine is locked that means it's seized and not much we can do besides rebuilding or replacing the engine?
 

Another possibility is, they worked on the hydraulics, right? Did they forget to put the system back together correctly and leave the hydraulics in a state of permanently trying to actuate?

My brother had a Farmall 460 that had a hydraulic system failure such that the hydraulics were always trying to actuate. You could barely start the tractor from the extra loading. When it did start, it was just a matter of time before the engine would start to load down terribly; because the hydraulic drawbar would lift and then run out of travel; but the tractor was still trying to activate hydraulics.

Maybe the system built up pressure during your drive up the driveway, and now it's holding the engine from starting?

It seems as though the pressure should have dissipated by now, though..but, if they put it all back together with good seals, the pressure might be holding.
 
So we are wondering, if we were to try to get the tractor moving and see if it will jump start- would it damage the crank shaft if it is seized??? And other than with a socket how else could we tell if the crank shaft is seized?
 
(quoted from post at 13:57:35 05/01/19) So we are wondering, if we were to try to get the tractor moving and see if it will jump start- would it damage the crank shaft if it is seized??? And other than with a socket how else could we tell if the crank shaft is seized?

If the engine is seized, the tractor shouldn't move when in gear and the clutch out, but yes, any movement of the crank if the bearings are damaged could score the crank further.
 
(quoted from post at 13:49:54 05/01/19) Yes, they replaced the hydraulic pump and put a rebuilt fuel injector on it.

I think you're getting somewhere. If your mechanic already rotated the crank with a socket, he did so from the front pulley. That means you don't have a hydraulic pump coupled to the front pulley. Next. Is your hydraulic pump engine mounted. It will be mounted at the rear of the engine block next to the transmission bell housing. That pump could be locked up, preventing the engine from turning, or worse, your shop could have left a rag in the block opening when they installed the new pump. Need you to confirm your pump location first.
 

I failed to ask this before. Did you check for engine coolant in the radiator. This would have nothing to do with a hydraulic repair or fuel injector but I should have asked.
 
(quoted from post at 08:05:22 05/01/19)
Another possibility is, they worked on the hydraulics, right? Did they forget to put the system back together correctly and leave the hydraulics in a state of permanently trying to actuate?

My brother had a Farmall 460 that had a hydraulic system failure such that the hydraulics were always trying to actuate. You could barely start the tractor from the extra loading. When it did start, it was just a matter of time before the engine would start to load down terribly; because the hydraulic drawbar would lift and then run out of travel; but the tractor was still trying to activate hydraulics.

Maybe the system built up pressure during your drive up the driveway, and now it's holding the engine from starting?

It seems as though the pressure should have dissipated by now, though..but, if they put it all back together with good seals, the pressure might be holding.

Do you know of any You Tube or other site video that might show how we would go about checking for the pressure?
 

Do you have a site that might show photos of where to look? I will have my husband go out and check to see if he can tell where the Hydraulic pump is and then will respond if he can figure it out.
 

Do you have a manual for your tractor, if not you can get one from this site, I-T manual # FO-41 for $30.

1st thing is your husband needs to check to see if the engine is stuck himself rather than just taking the word of the mechanic.
Try to turn it in ether direction, if it turns any at all the engine isn't stuck.
Until that's determined no one can tell you what direction to go to fix the problem.
 
(quoted from post at 05:52:42 05/03/19)
Do you have a site that might show photos of where to look? I will have my husband go out and check to see if he can tell where the Hydraulic pump is and then will respond if he can figure it out.

Here's a link to a YT post a day or so ago with a picture of what I believe you have for a hydraulic pump.

https://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/viewtopic.php?t=1392297

Take a look at that photo and let us know if you have the same hydraulic pump.
 

Hydraulic pump on a 4610 bolts into the right side of the axle housing, unless it has the deluxe dual pump system which has an additional pump on the left rear corner of the engine block.
The smaller 2610-3610 have the engine mounted pump.
 
(quoted from post at 19:23:35 05/03/19)
Hydraulic pump on a 4610 bolts into the right side of the axle housing, unless it has the deluxe dual pump system which has an additional pump on the left rear corner of the engine block.

This may sound crazy, but I've never seen a 4610 with a center housing mounted pump. Maybe all the tractors ordered around here were routinely ordered with an engine mounted pump.

Anyway, for now, it might be a good idea to stay focused on potential causes of engine seizure.
 

Edit: Should have said "with only a center housing mounted pump."

Anyone know why the Edit function doesn't work or can tell me what I'm doing wrong.
 

Edit function hasn't worked since I've been a member.
In your prier post you have a link to a photo of a engine mounted had pump.
I simply stated that a standard 4610 wouldn't have that pump unless it has the optional dual pump system.

If the engine is completely locked it has a seized bearing, if a engine mounted hyd pump is locked you would be able to turn the crank back and forth a small amount due to backlash in the timing gears.
If the crank is locked in one direction but will turn backward a good amount there's probably fluid on top of a piston causing it to hydraulic lock.
If the engine will rotate back and forth up to a 1/4 turn the rear hyd pump could be locked or some how the transmission as become engaged in two gears at the same time.
One other possibility is something has wedged between the starter bendex and flywheel locking the engine.

Waiting for the OP to try turning the crank to have a better idea what the issue may be.
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top