Ford 4000 (4410) weird charging issue

So a little bit ago my charging light was on so I replaced my voltage regulator and behold, light went out.

Fast forward, I learned the hard way one night while running with my lights on it was in fact not properly charging once I shut the tractor down and tried to fire it back up.

Here are the symptoms:
-At night the charging light is very dim but you can see that it is slightly lit.

-When I turn the lights on while tractor is on, disconnect the battery hot so it runs off the genny, my LED lights flicker on and off very rapidly and dim.

From those symptoms I have obviously deduced something is wrong with the charging system.

I have tried polarizing numerous times to no avail.

Replaced the Generator today ... still same issue.


What am I missing?

Voltage regulator works by opening and closing contacts inside rapidly, so that the average output voltage is around the proper charging voltage. Without the battery connected I would expect LED lights to flicker, as the battery acts almost like a capacitor to smooth out the voltage changes caused by the rapidly switching contacts. I don't know for sure, but I think that running a gen and VR without the battery connected can cause problems on its own.

You should get a meter and measure the battery voltage with the engine running and the lights off, and then again with the lights on.

(quoted from post at 05:06:00 04/09/19) Voltage regulator works by opening and closing contacts inside rapidly, so that the average output voltage is around the proper charging voltage. Without the battery connected I would expect LED lights to flicker, as the battery acts almost like a capacitor to smooth out the voltage changes caused by the rapidly switching contacts. I don't know for sure, but I think that running a gen and VR without the battery connected can cause problems on its own.

You should get a meter and measure the battery voltage with the engine running and the lights off, and then again with the lights on.

Click to expand...

I'll give this a shot later today and post back. That's good info. I guess I'm too used to checking alternator charging

If you replaced the charge indicator light with a LED that could be part of the problem.
The light wires are also the regulator exciter wires, the LED bulb doesn't provide enough resistance to properly excite the regulator.

(quoted from post at 06:06:38 04/09/19)
If you replaced the charge indicator light with a LED that could be part of the problem.
The light wires are also the regulator exciter wires, the LED bulb doesn't provide enough resistance to properly excite the regulator.

Click to expand...

Sorry it is my aftermarket headlights that are LED

(quoted from post at 09:45:38 04/09/19)

(quoted from post at 06:06:38 04/09/19)
If you replaced the charge indicator light with a LED that could be part of the problem.
The light wires are also the regulator exciter wires, the LED bulb doesn't provide enough resistance to properly excite the regulator.

Click to expand...

Sorry it is my aftermarket headlights that are LED

Click to expand...

F you have a generator & not an alternator, that warning lamp has nothing to do with 'exciting' anything. Which do you have?

Generator. Charging lamp is faintly lit all the time. Battery goes dead (brand new battery) after using headlights for extended periods of time.

This diagram belongs to a 4000, but is probably near same or same as your tractor. If you follow the color marked lines from each side of warning lamp all the way to VR, what you will see is that once VR's cut out contacts close, the contacts place a dead short across the bulb, so it should go dark. If that line of thinking troubles you, then think of it as applying battery voltage to both sides of lamp, in which case there would be zero current thru filament resulting in a dark lamp. If it is glowing, that means either the VR contacts are not closing to a good hard contact OR, there is a high resistance connection somewhere along those color marked paths, resulting in a low voltage across the lamp (verify connections at ignition switch, VR and fuse) & finally, I suppose there could be a mis-wire?

So I believe it is starting to look like the voltage regulator. Here are the voltages with the tractor running.

JMOR - given the voltages below it is apparent generator voltage is not making it to the battery connection on the VR. Could this be the closing issue within the VR that you were referring to?


Also just to be clear about what is shown in the picture:

B (Battery) is reading 12.2V ( same as actual battery of course )

F (Field) is fluctuating between 3V and 9V

D ( Not sure ) is steady at around 13.8V which is what I got directly at the generator.

Again all readings were with tractor running at about 1200 rpm

I have traced problems like this to old, brittle, corroded and frayed wiring more than a couple times. Never have I had a customer complain after a new
harness was installed in an old tractor. Never.

I'm not 100% sure, but I thought that the generator was supposed to put out a lot more than that, somewhere around 18 volts or so, and the VR was supposed to bring that down to the charging voltage of 13.5 to 14.5 volts or so. If only 13.8 volts are coming out of the generator then I don't think the VR could maintain a good charging voltage to the battery.

(quoted from post at 19:24:33 04/09/19) So I believe it is starting to look like the voltage regulator. Here are the voltages with the tractor running.

JMOR - given the voltages below it is apparent generator voltage is not making it to the battery connection on the VR. Could this be the closing issue within the VR that you were referring to?


Also just to be clear about what is shown in the picture:

B (Battery) is reading 12.2V ( same as actual battery of course )

F (Field) is fluctuating between 3V and 9V

D ( Not sure ) is steady at around 13.8V which is what I got directly at the generator.

Again all readings were with tractor running at about 1200 rpm

Click to expand...

easuring at the VR terminals, then it is correct that the VR cutout contacts are not closing. If they were, then the WL, D, B terminals would ALL measure the exact same voltage. Operating properly, the battery voltage will equal the armature (D) voltage. That is a fact jack.