1964 Ford 4000 hydraulic pump leak

Dirtsmith

Member
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After my tractor's long winter nap, I started it and attempted to raise the three point hitch as I wanted to use the boom to lift and move some stuff.

Instead of the lift arms raising, oil started blowing out from under the pump where it mounts to the chassis. This is a new. The three point hitch worked just fine before winter and now, it isn't working at all.

This appears to me to be a gasket issue, and that seems fairly straight forward. However, I could be wrong. I really don't know any more than I have said and what is shown in the photo.

This is a new "fix" for me. Are there any aspects of this work that might something of particular to note while making the fix?

I suspect that I should also drain the remainder of the oil that is in the reservoir and replace all of it too.

I appreciate any input or feedback any of you may have regarding this repair.
 
From the picture, it would appear that the o-ring between the pump and the pump manifold is not holding. Are the three bolts tight? Remove the pump from the manifold and see what's happening.
 
O rings do not fail over the winter by themselves.

How cold was it last winter?

How long has it been since the hydraulic oil was changed?

Water in the oil could have frozen cracking the hydraulic manifold.

In any event, you will need to determine where the oil is leaking before disassembly.

Dean
 


Looks very milky. Also looks to be seals between pump and manifold.


The other thing I see is red paint. Makes me wonder if you really have a '64 4000. They were blue from the factory.
 

Thank you for your reply.

It is a 1964.
Model: 41300- S
Serial Number: <> 45134 <>

The tractor was a "gift" to in fall of 2018; I have had only for a few months and not much time to do much else then determine that it needs a heck of a lot of attention. Perhaps more than I can give it, personally. So far, the best I could do was put it in a shelter during the winter.

There is blue paint under that abysmal paint job. I have precious little information about it's life prior it coming into my possession. One of my goal is to return it to its original scheme, but for now, i need it to run properly so i can use it to do real tasks around my property.

I as well thought that fluid looked very milky, and that does concern me.
 

Thank you, for your reply.

I agree, sitting alone and not in use, a seal or ring or gasket just does not fail all on its own. Your concern about water is valid, and that would also be a reason why the fluid looks milky.

This was a typical south central PA winter. A few days of cold, enough to freeze puddles of water, but not enough to freeze a pond well enough for hockey.

I know very little about the life of this tractor prior to October, 2018, when it came into my possession. I have to assume that is made to run well enough to sell it, but not given the care an owner might give it. It probably could use an overhaul of sorts.

While it is running I can see the oil blowing out between the manifold it sits on top of, and the bottom of the pump. There might be other places that it leaks from, but that one spot is clear to me.

Strangely, neither the I&T manual nor the Users Manual (reprint) I have, say from where to drain the hydraulic system. Considering the color, replacing the oil is at the top of my list or things to do on the tractor.

If you know where the proper place from where to drain the hydraulic is, I would love to know.
 

Thank you for your reply.

The bolts holding the pump to the manifold feel tight, (they were also painted over, so that help's, I guess).

It feels "solid", but when I took a closer look in better daylight, there appears to be little gap.

Since nobody replied with any particular concern with this repair, I think I'll just start unbolting the pump and taking a closer look at what is happening.
 

I'm no rocket surgeon, but this is clearly related to the issue. Also not surprisingly, It would appear that the reservoir is empty. I am convinced that these two issues are related... if only there was an obvious problem here. (That's sarcasm.)

Not shown (as that problem is self-evident) is the last of the "milk" that currently dripping out from where the manifold attaches underneath. I guess some water get in their somehow.

No sign of any type of gasket material or o-rings, just flush mounted parts, face to face.

Now, here's the exciting part, the New Holland Genuine parts store says that this part is not available!

Time to call Phil Swift, and get some Flex Seal. If that stuff can make a screen-door boat float, surly it will fix the hydraulics on a tractor - right?

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Wow! Somebody was mean to that thing , , , and knew it. If they hadn't they'd a put O-rings back in it when they put it back together.

Have you asked your Ford (NH) dealer to do a dealer search? They may find a new one left in stock somewhere or bought by an obsolete parts center. If they do, it'll be much pricier than the eBay one shared.
 

Thank you, Larry.

Not seeing any type or o-ring or gasket or anything had me a bit concerned about why that broke. Water freezing doesn't seem to be the likely cause of that sort of damage.

I am calling Messics tomorrow to see what they might be able to find. I'd prefer new old stock, but that $135 price for the ebay part is more fare more appealing to me than the $245 price NH is asking for - and that is IF they can find one. Basically, on NH's website, they tell you buy it, i.e. place the order, then they will go look for it.

There are a few other places within a 50 mile radius that I am checking with as well.

It's a 54 year old tractor, of that time, I can only attest to five months of its life. I am not under any illusion that this is the last thing to content with.
 

Thank you checking around, Fredstev. I do appreciate that you looked around.

If it's up on Ebay, then there are some floating around still. That is comforting to know.
 
(quoted from post at 16:47:20 03/17/19)
Thank you checking around, Fredstev. I do appreciate that you looked around.

If it's up on Ebay, then there are some floating around still. That is comforting to know.

When you find one, make sure it's for after tractor serial # 14257.The # you need is 310878, the early one is about half the price. Your tractor and mine are the same, mine is just a couple of months newer. I did use item 36&38 they are square cut o rings, some people say regular o rings work and maybe so, but why did ole Henry use them if the regular ones would work? The ones that go on the transmission are regular o rings.

39 INLET MANIFOLD - Manifold, Intake NCA933J $293.02 3-7 business days 1
Used on & BSN 14257 Call Call 1
39 INLET MANIFOLD - Manifold, Intake 310878 $489.83 3-7 business days 1
Used on & ASN 14256 Call Call 1

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I did use item 36&38 they are square cut o rings, some people say regular o rings work and maybe so, but why did ole Henry use them if the regular ones would work?

"ole Henry" was dead over 5 years when the NAA came out in late 1952 for the 1953 model year, and it used external lines instead of the manifold with the lines through the transmission, and then the earlier manifold design came after that, followed by the design you are discussing, so I am guessing that "ole Henry" had nothing to do with the design of that manifold and what kind of o-rings they used with it. But I think that a proper design engineering team designed it and that they did have their reasons for doing so, which is why I agree that you should use the proper square cut o-rings.
 
Have had such tractor and similar of different 1000 series and found that on some parts red is under the blue. Don't know if it was red lead primer or just
using leftover parts from earlier 100 series tractors. Paint was OEM, not aftermarket make-over.
 

Hi oldseabee, nice to hear from you again.

I very much appreciate what you have offered regarding the specifics of what to look for. The parts that you referenced in your reply, the first shows the name part number I found on New Holland's parts search, NCA933J.

The second part number in your reply 310878, sounds like what I should be looking for (and to think, I thought $290 was a lot for the part).

What are "BSN and ASN"; I am not yet familiar with this abbreviations?

If I may, where did you find these, have you found a 'gold mine' for '64 4000 parts?
 

BSN-Before serial number. ASN- After serial number. I've brought parts from wherever I could find them. The one I showed the part numbers was from messicks but you can find one somewhere for a lot less.
 

Hi oldseabee, I am a big fan of Messics myself. They have amazing service, and for me, they are 'local' so I got that going for too.

Another local-to-me company, Long Lane Tractor, here in Central PA has also been really good to me. They have the manifold and even pointed out the same thing that you had regarding selecting the correct part, that being 310878, just to make certain I was getting what I should get. They even have the o-rings to finish the job.

Now if I can just get all of the oil on the driveway back into the tractor without the cat litter an dirt and junk.... (No, I can't. Just kidding.)

I might be in home stretch on this one! Thank you for all of your help.
 

Hi all, thank you for your help with this.

The leak was under the pump at the top of manifold. There were o-rings there, and they did work for a while, however, they were square cut o-rings. The o-rings I bought with the 'new' part are torus shaped o-rings.

The bottom connection did not leak, and it also had torus shaped o-rings already.

I cleaned up the 'new' part, primed it and installed it.

I poured the last of my Multi G 134 into the sump and it was still too low with the cylinders fully extended. There was not enough fluid; the fluid level still registered low on the dip stick.

On the upside, I don't have any oil pouring out from underneath the tractor any more. I used it for a bit without issue, aside from the hydraulics not lifting, which I presume because of not having enough Multi G 134, it appeared to be fixed.

After I have picked up some more Multi G 134, I'll top it off and tell you how it went.
 

This morning, I went to Messics and purchased some Ambro Multi G 134 (exactly the same stuff I had, but just not enough of) and topped off the sump. The dip stick now says that it has enough hydraulic oil - with the cylinder fully extended.

Unfortunately, the lift arms are still not raising when I pull the control lever back to highest position.

Last fall, before the tractor was put up for the winter, the lift arms would raise and they stayed up until I moved the control lever down again. Today, nothing.

Darn.
 

Have you primed the pump? If not, try that first. If that doesn't fix your problem, I'd guess you have a valve or valves stuck up in the lift deck.
 

Hi Larry, thank you for this suggestion.

No, I have not primed the pump. I know what it means to do so, I have done for water pumps and things when transferring liquids, but to be perfectly honest, I have no idea at all how to prime THIS pump.

I have the I&T manual, but I did not see how to prime the it in the R&R instructions for the Piston Pump, which is where I thought those instructions might be. Then again, it is a manual for mechanics who know more or less what they are doing.

That does not yet describe me.
 

I am revising my previous comment.

There is a troubleshooting section in my I&T FO-20 manual. In that troubleshooting section there is a passage describing what can be done if the hydraulics will not lift.

In there it mentions removing the plug on the cover to see if fluid is flowing while the engine is running. it also mentions about putting a hose in the bleed port and running it to the filler port.

I know where the filler port is, but I can't find anything that says what or where the bleed port is. Also, is the hose anything special?
 

I found this response to a similar request for help with getting a pump to prime, in a different forum. In his response, a person with the handle "sixbales" said:

"Here's another thing to try: Get a hose barb/nipple that will screw into the test port of your pump. Then run a clear plastic tube (1/2") back to the filler port of your hydraulic reservoir. This presents minimal backpressure to the pump whilst you are trying to prime it. And with clear plastic tubing, you can see what's happening"

So, perhaps the same port I am removing the plug from is also the "bleed port" that I am looking for. The rest of the description matches what I read, in FO-20 paragraph 303. The one titled "Priming the Pump".

This passage from sixbales fills in a few blanks for me, where the "bleed port" is, which apparently is the test port mention in FO-20 Paragraph 303. The hose is apparently nothing particularly special either.

Now, I just need to find some time to test!
 

WOW! Guess what! It primed all by itself!

I was watching another one of Dan and Rachel's video's; in it they said to blow air into the dip stick hole, but before doing so, run the tractor at about 600 rpm, then raise the touch control lever and then start to blow air in.

I got as far as moving the tractor from the shed, and setting the RPM's. Within a moment or two or moving the touch control lever, the hydraulics started working again!

With the heaviest implement I have attached, a 5' box blade, I moved the lever to the highest position. Lo and behold! Glory to God The Highest! IT LIFTED UP!

I left it that way to see if it holds.

Perhaps now, I can go ruin my driveway the amateur way!

Thank you all, again for your help.
 

The way I prime that pump, for future reference, is to remove the coil wire or leave the diesel fuel shut off. Then I remove the pipe plug on top front of the pump (takes an allen wrench or hex key). I then bump or crank the starter until oil comes out the hole, replace the plug and you're good to go. This method does not require a hose back to reservoir.
 

Thank you, Larry. I'll save that tip in my 'manual' should I need it later, though I hope I don't for a while.


A little more than 3.5 hours has elapsed since i left the tractor with the TPH up and the weight of the box blade on it, and it is holding well. It does not appear to have dropped at all.

This might be a 'done deal', for now.
 

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