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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
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ford tractors

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rat0851

03-04-2019 20:47:22




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Hi Forum members, I purchased a ford tractor with the loader and believe it is a 4400 model. when I look up the 4500 and 4400 to compare I do not see the differences . can anyone on her enlighten me on this ? thanks




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rat0851

03-13-2019 17:10:31




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
I believe that the diversion valve is the best way for me to go if I put the hoe on the 4500. Thanks all for the help.



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rat0851

03-11-2019 16:24:51




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
Well I see what you are talking about. thanks for explaining it. I will look at something else.



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Sean in PA

03-11-2019 12:15:34




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

No, you can't use tee connectors to connect the inputs and outputs of the two valves. They are open center valves and the fluid will follow the path of lease resistance, so when you try to operate the loader the fluid will simply from through the open center of the backhoe control valve to the sump, and when you try to operate the backhoe it will flow through the open center of the loader control valve to the sump. you can only have both installed on the tractator with either a diverter valve so that only one is getting fluid flow at a time, or a power beyond setup, by either converting one of the control valves to power beyond, or replace one of them with one that is already configured for power beyond.

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rat0851

03-11-2019 11:42:18




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
Well my buddy looked at my 4500 and said it was the smaller pump. he has the 4500 with factory hoe. I was thinking that I could put a t in the pressure side and a t in the return side at the loader valve bank and supply hose the oil to the pressure side of the valve bank for the hoe as well as the return side of the same valve bank. ??? that way constant pressure would also be routed to the return side so as not to damage anything. what do you think ?

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Destroked 450

03-11-2019 07:46:22




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
It possible to pump that way some of the smaller models had a selector valve to allow using the loader without the hoe.

Check the size of your pump to see what you have, most 4500's came with the hoe and had the bigger pump.



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rat0851

03-10-2019 19:08:31




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
Well I graduated high school in 69. I worked 6 months in a coal mine after high school. worked a year in Ypsilanti Michigan , then worked 2 years in earth excavation, then entered Army Jan. 1972. married in Aug. 73 while in Army. spent 37 months at Ft. Myer Va. then came home worked 5 more years in excavation. finally went in mines for 20 years, then worked as Federal mine inspector for almost 15 years before retiring in May 2014. Been a good life , but some tough times along the way. Had the Widow Maker Heart attack August 30 th. of 18, two stints and still 50 % blocked. still work a lot just don't get as much done. No reason to complain. I was thinking this, since nobody really uses the loader bucket and the hoe at the same time, is it possible that the smaller pump would supply the hoe itself if only using the hoe and not both together ?

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Destroked 450

03-09-2019 18:58:54




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
April 96 was my last trip in that area in a big rig, helped a friend build a sawmill a few miles from my house, hauled lumber and logs for them till 08 when I retired from driving after 30 years, stayed on as maintenance until 15.

Full time farming now but still help them with electrical problems on occasion.

Fort Know is about 25 miles east of me, I graduated school in 73.



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rat0851

03-09-2019 08:13:56




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
I looked up your location. close to Fort knox. I did my Army Basic training there in Jan. thru March of 1972. sure was cold in Feb.
Yes the coal industry is nearly gone. Mostly mined out. Oboma hurt coal bad. the road bought me out in 96 and I moved on up the hollow and built a new home. the high school is now the middle school and a new Belfry high is at Black Jim area where the Stone Quarry was located. they built a nice 30 million dollar school. You had to be a good driver to get around some of the curves on the mountain roads with large trucks. Have you retired ? Do you farm any ? later

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Destroked 450

03-08-2019 21:00:50




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
Yea I know where Belfry is but I didn't know that community at the bottom of the mountain was called Hubby.

Traveled through that area a lot in the early 90's.

There's a fuel bulk storage place down the road in McAndrews, I delivered the 30,000 gallon storage tanks to them. Delivered water storage tanks all over that area for Pike County Water.

Delivered a lot of fuel storage tanks to the mines as well, coal was booming then. I hear you guys are having a rough time there now.
Came through there around 2002 after they had made the cuts through the mountains on 119, nothing looked the same till I got to the Belfry High School.

Still remember the names of some of the curves on old 119, Hanging Rock I believe was over near Meta or before you got the Sidney, Cemetery Corner was over next to you.

Meet a lot of nice folk in my travels thru there.

I live about 55 miles south west of Louisville off of US60

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rat0851

03-08-2019 17:01:02




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
where are you located Destroked 450 ?



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rat0851

03-08-2019 16:28:54




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
3 miles south of Belfry . a community called Huddy with zip 41535

on US 119 .



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Destroked 450

03-08-2019 14:33:29




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Where in eastern Ky are you.



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rat0851

03-08-2019 12:28:23




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
I may need to get the bigger pump to run my hoe also. I have a 2000 industrial backhoe and am thinking of putting the hoe on the 4500. it is a little smaller than the factory 4500 hoes are, but I just use it around the property for odds and ends. then I could use the 2000 for three point drill , bush hog, or something else. thanks for the replies.



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Destroked 450

03-08-2019 10:46:08




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
My 4500 didn't have any of the gears or shafts in the transmission to run a pto, had a cup plug in the hole where the pto output shaft goes.

Everything to run a pto is the same on the 6x4 as the standard 8x2 trans except the input shaft, gearing is different on 6x4.

The input shaft for independent pto has been discontinued for many years, looked for one back in 2000 and I haven't found a used one yet, although I'd given up looking some years ago.

I will be disassembling the trans on my 4500 this year to replace a noisy bearing, I'm going to see if the gear for a transmission driven pto is in there where I can add the other components.

I have plenty of other tractors with pto so Im not going to invest much money putting it on my 4500.

This tractors future use plans are for moving, loading and feeding round bales of hay to cattle and maybe some snow removal when we get any.

FYI there where two sizes of crank driven pumps for the 4500

One for tractor and loader only is 12 gpm

One for tractor, loader and hoe is 25 gpm

Mine originally had the hoe attachment but I didn't get it in the purchase but it does have the big pump.

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rat0851

03-08-2019 06:08:56




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
Thanks for the info. I will check it out when the weather is agreeable here in eastern Ky.



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801 Powermaster

03-08-2019 04:53:41




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
Do you have a motor for it? I will have one from the tractor I am taking the loader and steering along with the front end off of. My uncle said it ran good but then they took the dist. out to rebuild it and never put it back.



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Destroked 450

03-07-2019 20:39:39




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
3 point lift isn't hard to add if you can find the parts.

I took the pump lines manifold and lift top off of a 4000 Select O Speed tractor and bolted it onto my 4500.

PTO parts for the 6x4 manual reverser trans are near impossible to find.



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rat0851

03-07-2019 20:23:36




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
Since my 4500 does not have a PTO , how much is involved in adding to the rear section to achieve this ? I do not know if the front pump is big enough to supply the hoe with hyd. pressure ?

any input helpful. thanks



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Ultradog MN

03-08-2019 02:48:49




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-07-2019 20:23:36  
You could drain the oil out of the rear end then remove the 6" round cover on the Left side of the rear end and look inside. On a pto tractor there will be two output shafts on the back of the transmission. Upper one will be coupled to the pinion shaft to drive the tractor. Lower one would drive the pto.
If the lower output shaft is there it would be simple to add the pto - provided you can find the parts. Destroked says they are hard to find.
I have never tried.
It is also possible that the pto delete might also have included the pto gears and through shafts in the transmission.
If that is the case adding a pto would be a lost cause - short of a whole new tranny and pto parts.
Pulling that round cover and looking would tell the story.
FWIW, any 3 cylinder 4000 and derivative all the way into the 1980s would be a direct bolt-on swap if you got from the flywheel back.
Dead/junk ag 4000/4600s are not hard to find and if you went that route you would get the 3 point stuff already on it.
I bought this one for $1200 back in December. Motor is stuck real bad/ruined.
I was going to part it out but have decided to replace the motor instead.


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rat0851

03-07-2019 14:52:57




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
Mine is D5011K also. No PTO either.



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rat0851

03-07-2019 12:24:18




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
I am very impressed with the knowledge everyone has on these tractors. thanks , I will look for more # s and post later.



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Destroked 450

03-07-2019 12:16:52




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
3550 production didn't begin until 72, your tractor is a 69.

Looking at your photo!

4500 has that oil tank made into the shell, parts look up shows a 3500 doesn't have the oil tank

4500 air cleaner access plate is on the left, 3500's is on the right.

I see power steering lines going down to the cylinder in the front bolster.

4500 uses this type of steering, 3500 does not.

There's another set of numbers in the same location as the ones you found, may be farther back in the unmachined area.

The model numbers for my 4500 are D5011K

D50 = 4500

1 = diesel engine

1= no pto

K = 6x4 manual reversing trans

Your's should have the same D50

Your looks to be diesel so should have the 1

Don't see a pto lever on the left side under the seat so another 1

D5011?

The last letter depends on the tractors trans option.



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rat0851

03-07-2019 11:31:05




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
Are there any # locations that positively identify it as a 4500 ford or not. I noticed that the 3550 has the same heavy front end , flat plate at top in front of radiator ?



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Ultradog MN

03-07-2019 12:11:57




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-07-2019 11:31:05  
Look on the bell housing - just above and behind the starter.
See photo.
There should be 3 lines of code hand stamped into the flat spot there.
You may have to clean/scrape/brush or chaulk to read them.
Post those and someone here can decipher them for you.
As for whether it's a 3550 or 4500;
Yes they used the same bolster but the power steering was different.
A 4500 and 4400 had the PS cylinder in the bolster under the radiator.
A 3500 and 3550 had external power assist.
Look at the heavy steering arm attached to the left side of the front axle on the yellow tractor.
And look at the side arm steering cylinder on the blue tractor.
Together that is the configuration a 3500 and 3550 had.


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rat0851

03-07-2019 11:07:08




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
Thanks, I appreciate your help. May ask for more help when I start work on her. Randal



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Sean in PA

03-07-2019 08:31:19




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

That would be an August 4, 1969 date code.



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rat0851

03-06-2019 18:11:05




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
checked the # again and it is 9H04B



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Destroked 450

03-06-2019 07:41:56




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
Apparently that tractors had the front grill steel and oil tank swapped for a newer style.

Canister oil filter dates the engine to before 11/69 but according to parts listing the grill shell with the round access cover on the left side wasn't available until 2/71.

My 4500 was built 11/68 and uses the square louvered access panels on both sides.



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rat0851

03-05-2019 18:14:46




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
Thanks . I think it is a 1969 and I will look closer to see if the 1 is a J or not. will post more wed.



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Sean in PA

03-05-2019 17:41:11




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
C245095 is a 1969 serial number.

9104B is not a valid date code. If it was a date code then the second character would be a letter, not a numeral. Also, since they did not use the letter I for the month, that 1 in the second position wouldn't be an I either, so if it is really a J, then it would be 9J04B, which would be September 4, 1969 during the day shift.

It may be an option code for the transmission. If it is then it will remain a mystery, as no one that I know of has ever explained what they mean.

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rat0851

03-05-2019 17:16:59




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
I have the serial # from the right side next to starter, but do not know how to read it. here it is 9104B at top and under that C245095
Can you figure it out ? Thanks Randal



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rat0851

03-05-2019 16:14:16




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
Thanks for the simple explanation and the two pictures. that decided it for me. I bought the industrial 4500 tractor and loader.






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Ultradog MN

03-05-2019 02:24:46




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 Re: ford tractors in reply to rat0851, 03-04-2019 20:47:22  
A 4400 and 4500 are quite similar and use the same basic chassis.
The most obvious difference between them is the 4500 is an Industrial model and had a "hard nose" meaning it has a heavy guage, flat front radiator shroud. 4400 used the lighter sheet metal nose like the ag model Fords.
Also, the 4500 used a significantly heavier front axle than a 4400.
The engine, transmission and rear ends in both tractors are the same.
The first photo shows a 4500. Second one is a 4400.

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