860 Stuck Engine

So I picked up a 55 860 this week with a stuck engine. It’s really straight and complete, but missing distributor and the wirings a mess.

I tinkered with it some yesterday after getting it unloaded. The seller had no knowledge of the tractor at all, only selling it after got it with some property.

Here’s what I’ve got so far...
1. Transmission works in all gears
2. Both primary and PTO clutch work as they should turning PTO by hand.
3. It rolls just fine.
4. Oil on the dipstick is black, on the low mark.
5. Plugs came right out, looked good, no rust, smelled like gas.
6. Cam, valves, lifters look as the should. Nothing broken.
7. 6 pushrods will spin easy. 2 won’t spin at all by hand.
8. Cylinders/pistons have almost no rust at all looking through the plug holes.
9. #1 and #4 piston about 4/5 from TDC
10. #2 and #3 piston about 3/5 from TDC

Here’s what I’ve tried...
1. Plugs out. Entire can of PB Blaster in the cylinders. Plugs back in. ATF goes in tonight.
2. Starter removed. Drive not stuck in flywheel.
3. Valve cover and pushrod cover removed. More PB Blaster on everything. Covers back on loosely.
4. I’ve got zero movement rocking it in 5th.

I’m going to pull the hydraulic pump next to make sure it’s not locked. Then I want to pull the pan, mainly to check the crank and I’m pretty sure the bottom of the distributor shaft broke, and is still in the block.

Can you fine gentlemen tell me if I need to remove the front end/bolster to get the pan out or does the pan just drop out? Also anything else to look for that could be stuck? I had an 841 with a broken fiber cam gear lock up one time. I’ll check that after the pan is off.

Manuals are on the way. From my initial inspection it did not fill with water either from an uncovered exhaust or cooling system issue. I’m thinking either just stuck from sitting(best case) or some mechanic lock.

Thanks much.

One can infer from the fact that you unloaded it, that the rear wheels roll freely with the transmission in neutral and the clutch engaged???

Maybe use some Hagen's brew in the cylinders for a few days.

Do water pump and generator turn freely?

(quoted from post at 12:14:39 02/28/19) One can infer from the fact that you unloaded it, that the rear wheels roll freely with the transmission in neutral and the clutch engaged???

Maybe use some Hagen's brew in the cylinders for a few days.

Do water pump and generator turn freely?

Click to expand...

Yes it rolls freely. Transmission and clutch work as normal.

It’s soaking in PB Blaster now. No gen due to a terrible 12V conversion. Haven’t check the water pump but I’ve got the belt loose enough to basically fall off.

Can I drop the pan without touching the front bolster? I’m planning on removing the pan tonight.

You should be able to remove the pan without removing anything else.

Great! Thank you very much.

I’m going to start with the hydraulic pump to make sure that’s not stuck and holding up the works. It’s a piston pump and my think is that water in the fluid may have caused it to rust.

No chance to work on it tonight. Raining now, it’s uncovered and parked in a mud hole. Ask my loving wife why...

Anyway, while the pan is off I plan to investigate the oil pump and what I think is the bottom half of a distributor.

Can anyone from the pics tell if this is the bottom of a distributor shaft?

I took the picture through the distributor hole in the block. It looks machined. Looks broken. Definitely cast. And maybe aluminum.

Not certain, but think that is part of the block.

That would be great. I did notice it’s below the cam gear, but from the pictures of distributors I “could be” the bottom 3” or so above the oil pump.

Anyway, off early tomorrow and the family is out of town so I’ll have plenty of time for digging into it.

Thank you Larry for your help. I’ll be back tomorrow afternoon with an update.

(quoted from post at 19:43:50 02/28/19) No chance to work on it tonight. Raining now, it’s uncovered and parked in a mud hole. Ask my loving wife why...

Anyway, while the pan is off I plan to investigate the oil pump and what I think is the bottom half of a distributor.

Can anyone from the pics tell if this is the bottom of a distributor shaft?

I took the picture through the distributor hole in the block. It looks machined. Looks broken. Definitely cast. And maybe aluminum.

Click to expand...

JC,

It is hard to tell from the pic, but I tend to agree with your view. It looks to me like the distributor shaft broke below the drive gear and you are seeing whats left (still slid over the oil pump drive shaft). The flat side of the "circle" appears to be an angled break downward. If that is the case, the tractor may have continued to operate w/o the benefit of oil. You may find a spun bearing or severe bearing/journal surfaces that are keeping the engine from moving. Good luck and let us know what you find.

Chris

Thank you. And you are correct on the break, I can see a clear trasition to the grain in the cast.

As to continuing to run without a driven oil pump, I’m not so sure that’s possible. I thought about that scenario, but if the distributor broke would it not immediately loose spark?

Unless the top half stayed put with the gear engaged driving the rotor, but the bottom did not.

Anyway, find out sooner or later. I’ll update today with what I find. Hoping for the best.

The angle of this one shows what could be the break a little better.

I have an 861 setting in the shop with the distributor pulled. I looked in on it! I don't believe your problem is visible in that hole. They look pretty much the same .My 861 was running until I pulled the distributor for another guy who has a problem.

I know it’s not what’s got it locked up, but just a side bar on other things that may be wrong.

Would you be able to take the same photo on your 861 for a comparison?

It’s all just speculation right now until I get to it today.

Thanks Wayne

I sure wish I could take pictures, but I am not smart enough to run one of those fancy things that talks and take pictures too. And if I did I wouldn't be smart enough to put pictures on the internet either. I have a simple pocket phone that actually "rings". Don't mean to be derogatory here I guess I was just born to early in the last century.

No worries, I understand.

I’ll have it apart soon enough anyway. Does anyone care to comment on the new aftermarket distributors available on eBay, Amazon, and the like?

They run from $80-$140. I can get a used one from a salvage yard but it’ll probably need bushing, points and the works.

Update after a partial tear down.

Started about 3:30 by removing the hydraulic pump. It’s seams to function just fine.

Next I dropped the pan and everything inside looks great. Nothing broken, no spun bearings upon inspection. But I did notice some rust on a crank throw, then a rust trail coming down #3 cylinder.

Finally I decided to pull the head and bingo, #3 is fairly rusted with some rust in #2 as well. All four are soaking in ATF now so I’ll be checking on it daily to signs of movement. After it’s out I’ll assess the piston, rings, and sleeve and replace as necessary.

On a side note, I’m still not sure what the “broken distributor” piece is. I can definitely feel some parting or casting line, but looking up from the bottom is just a constant bore. I swear I can wiggle it with my finger, or I’m crazy.

Pics for your viewing pleasure.

#3 hole



#2 hole

#3 hole



#2 hole

ya - that's not going to buff out -

it's an easy engine to rebuild, or maybe you could find a runner out there somewhere, there's nothing short of new sleeves that will get yours running again -

David

Clean it out with a wire brush, then take a air or electric grinder with a 3" wire wheel with oil in it. Then wipe it down, look and see what you really have. You might be surprised at what's left. Worst thing, you might have to bore/sleeve it..... Yet!

I just did that to a chevy 350 I got, that was stuck & rusted in two cylinders. It cleaned up with only leaving a stain on the bore. I deglazed it with a dingle ball hone, and it needs nothing more done to it. Other then rings, I was sure it had to be bored, but nope.

See if luck is on your side!

pat

That engine is a sleeved block, pull the out sleeves out and push new ones in, you can get a rebuild kit with new pistons and sleeves.

Hard to tell by the pics but I didn't see the oil pump drive, if thats the bottom of the dist the inside should be hex shaped for the oil pump drive.