Ford 4400 Advice

Hi there, new member here. I was just given to me a 1969 Ford 4400 utility diesel tractor that I got running and been cleaning up and repainting. The biggest down fall with the tractor is it has the torque convertor transmission and no PTO. I found a 8spd transmission and rear end with IPTO from a 540B, but it doesn't include the flywheel or clutch. My question is, will the flywheel that I have now with the torque convertor the same one used for a 11" clutch? The Ford New Holland parts site lists 2 different flywheel part #'s as C7NN6375C 11" clutch, W/torque Convertor NHNA,3500 and C5NE6375AC 11" clutch, W/torque convertor, 3500. I have no clue what the difference is between these 2 part #'s and what the NHNA stands for. Also according to the online parts site the 540B uses a 13" clutch. So would this swap work? Anybody have any experience in this? I'm sure I'll have more questions on this, Thanks in advance, Blademan

Youll have to have flywheel/ clutch for 8 speed trans.

Ford flywheel and clutches can be a major pia.
They used half a dozen different ones and they can all be different.
I would say the consensus here is don't buy the transmission unless you get the flywheel and clutch that came with it. Even if the clutch is bad at least you know what to order for a new one.
If it helps, a 4000 or 4600 ag model trans/ rear end is a direct swap for a 4400. More of those made thus easier to find.
Lastly, it really is best to buy the whole shebang together - flywheel, clutch, transmission, rear end. No guessing or parts chasing then and it's a very simple swap.
Here's a photo of a 4400 I had getting a 4000 trans/rear end swap like you're thinking about doing.

Thanks Shaun, I realize I need a clutch and flywheel, and the torque convertor will not work for the 8spd, my question is will the flywheel that I have now with the torque convertor attached to it. Is it the same flywheel that is used for the clutch set up?

Thanks Ultradog Mn, That was actually my plan is to find a parts tractor, I just happened to find this one at a salvage yard. The price is fair on it, but no history on it, could be a money pit. I agree with you, I would rather find a parts tractor.

My search shows a different part # for torque convertor flywheel verses the standard ag flywheel.
A flywheel for a late 4000 or 4600 with 11" clutch shouldn't be hard to find.
If the tractor has a loader and you plan to to a lot of loader work with it I'd step up to a 13" clutch.
The 13" clutch flywheels for a 4500 with manual reverser and late model 3930/4630's will work.

Thanks Destroked 450 for the information, My tractor doesn't have the loader, if it did I probably would stay with the torque convertor set up if I was to use it primarily for loader work (a lot quicker on its feet). My plan is to use this tractor for mowing the field pulling a finish mower.

Found a Ford 4000 parts tractor for sale with a 3 cyl gas engine, looking at the pictures looks like a 8 speed transmission and IPTO ( doesn't have the Hyd. pump on the back of the engine ). Since my 4400 is 3 cyl diesel, will the flywheel from the gas engine bolt up to the crankshaft? And will everything else match up. Also which is better IPTO or LPTO?

None of the various part numbers for flywheels for diesel engines match up with the flywheel part numbers for gasoline engines, so I don't think a gasser would be a good donor.

Independent PTO is better. It can be powered completely independent of the position of the clutch pedal. Live PTO depends on the clutch pedal being at least halfway out. Independent PTO was the "normal" PTO for most tractor models in the 3 cylinder 4000 series.

Part numbers are different because the starter ring gear comes with a new flywheel.
Starter ring gears are different between gas and diesel engines so flywheel parts numbers are different.
What I'm not sure about is if the balance is the same or not.

Fyi,
You should start a new thread.
If you go back and reply to a month old thread the half of the board who read classic view won't even see your new reply.
I say Destroked is correct.
Any flywheel from a 3 cylinder engine will fit any other 3 cylinder.
The only difference will be the starter ring gear which is a simple matter to change if you have an oxy-acet torch to heat it.
As to IPTO vs LPTO, it's pretty much a horse apiece though I have a slight prefrence for LPTO. Where are you located?
I [i:654c4848f0]might[/i:654c4848f0] sell the rear half of a 4600 I have here this spring.
It would be a good swap for a 4400 and have slightly better hyds than a 4000.

Thanks Sean,I was mistaken on the gas donor tractor PTO, it is a LPTO not a IPTO

Thanks Destoked, I didn't even think about the balance of the flywheel

Thanks Ultradog for the information, I was wondering why it didn't post this morning.So it sounds like the gas engine flywheel will bolt up to the diesel engine, with the exception of the ring gear. Destroked was wondering about the balance if it would be different. Also I'm in northwest Washington.

Dunno.
The gas and diesel engines of that era used the same block, crankshaft, cam and rods so I'm not sure why the balance of the flywheel would be different.

Thanks Ultradog, I may call on this 4000 gasser today and see if I could take a look at it. I would be interested in your parts but it sounds like you live pretty far me for the shipping costs.

Yeah,
You're a long ways away.
Between you and me, you're better off buying a dead tractor and part it out yourself - if you have the room, etc.
I've parted out a few 3/4000s and did well on them. Didn't make a lot of dough but got the parts I wanted for next to nothing.
And it's kinda fun to tear one apart knowing you don't have to put it back together

A lot depends on when the tractor was built.
My 4000 started life as a April 68 build with a 192 gas engine and SOS trans.
We converted it to a 201 diesel using the crank from a 188 industrial engine.
I had the rotating assembly balanced and had the 192 SOS flywheel neutral balanced.
It took a good bit of work to neutral balance the flywheel, later when we converted the tractor to 8x2 manual trans I had the 201 diesel flywheel neutral balanced to make sure everything was proper.
It took very little to balance that flywheel.

I wouldn't be afraid to bolt a 201 gas flywheel onto a 201 diesel or the other way around, but if ether of the tractors has the earlier 192 gas engine I think the balance may be off.

This is the pulley for a 192 diesel, one for a 192 gas looks the same



This is the pulley for a 201 diesel, I haven't looked at a 201 gas but I'm sure it would probably look the same.

The lack of the two other holes in the 192 pulley will have an effect on the cranks balance, I have the flywheel for the 192 but haven't compared it to a 201 flywheel.

My advice would be to take both flywheels to a machine shop that can do balance work, have them balance the 8x2 's flywheel to the same balance as the SOS flywheel.
Shouldn't cost to much to have that done and it'll insure everything will work properly

Thanks for the info, my 4400 was built Oct 1969 and the engine was replaced at a later
date with a newer engine I believe in the 70's. Also mine has the TC not the SOS
trans. I haven't seen the 4000 gasser donor tractor yet, the guy hasn't called me back
, so I have no idea what year it is