Ford 4400 or 861

thoner7

Member
I'm looking to upgrade from a to-20 to something larger with a loader. These two are available in my area at the moment.


https://rochester.craigslist.org/grd/d/hilton-tractor/6804239066.html

https://rochester.craigslist.org/grd/d/phelps-ford-861-backhoe/6791260799.html

They seem very similar, but I'm a novice. Is it hard to add a snowplow setup to either? The 861 is set up for that already, and the backhoe I don't have much use for.

The backhoe I would try and sell if I went that route. Anyone want it?

Long term I plan to brush hog and snow plow and maintain a long gravel driveway with it. Also maintain some gardens. I also need to clear some thick brush and thicket areas, and use a back blade to put in some swales and level out some paths.. 60 hp is more than I need but won't hurt lol.
 

I also found this just now. Not a Ford but I'd figured id post it.

https://fingerlakes.craigslist.org/grd/d/seneca-falls-1970-massey-ferguson-3165/6811251994.html
 


unless you must have a hoe, go with the 4400... it has the heavy front end designed for loader work where the 861 does not. It is a newer design that has many advantages as well. Both appear to be gas and will be thirsty, but start better in very cold.

that being said, condition is everything.
 
To begin with the 4400 is significantly
more tractor than an 861.
The front end on them is designed for
heavy loader work. The 861 front end is
much lighter - not unlike your TO.
It might be useful on occasion to have a
backhoe. But you are NOT going to like
having to put the backhoe on/off to use a
mower, etc on the 3 point. With that
subframe and all those hydraulic lines
I'll bet it's a 1/2 day job to put
on/remove. Yes you could sell it.
Don't forget to consider the tires.
That is a big part of this equation.
For me, if the tires are equal I'd rather
have the 4400. I prefer the 3 cylinder
tractors anyway.
 
Looks just like a 4 point mount for the hoe, it stays with the tractor, just loosen the turnbuckle arrangement. The hoe comes off, just the hydraulics is left, those must be tied into the front pump and loader system, no way the tractor hydraulics would work well on this. Hoses should be quick disconnect, if so, the hoe can't be any worse than a one arm loader, maybe even better. My 850 has this same kind of 4 point mount, had this hoe on it at one time before I got it. Sure looks like a reasonably well kept machine, power steering is a plus. Fair price, one of these sold quickly at that same price, a year or 2 ago.
 
(quoted from post at 10:06:13 02/10/19) To begin with the 4400 is significantly
more tractor than an 861.
The front end on them is designed for
heavy loader work. The 861 front end is
much lighter - not unlike your TO.
It might be useful on occasion to have a
backhoe. But you are NOT going to like
having to put the backhoe on/off to use a
mower, etc on the 3 point. With that
subframe and all those hydraulic lines
I'll bet it's a 1/2 day job to put
on/remove. Yes you could sell it.
Don't forget to consider the tires.
That is a big part of this equation.
For me, if the tires are equal I'd rather
have the 4400. I prefer the 3 cylinder
tractors anyway.

I did notice the weight of the 4400 seems much heavier. Hopefully it wouldn't be heavy enough to cause a problem on softer ground?
 
Heavier tractor will usually have more
tire on it. Standard tire for a 4400 was
16.9x24. 800 would likely have 13.6x28.
I think the difference in compaction would
be negligible.
 

Make sure they have 3 point hitch and pto.
Some tractors that came with backhoes didn't have 3 point or pto.
3 point can be added but adding pto to a non pto tractor is costly.
 
The ad says that the 4400 has live PTO, but with the 8 speed it should be independent PTO like the 3 cylinder 4000 series ag models.
 
(quoted from post at 12:51:21 02/10/19)
Make the Massey has Live PTO (2 stage clutch). It makes life so much easier when doing PTO work.

There isn't much online info about that model. What kind of PTO is it?
 
(quoted from post at 15:58:38 02/10/19)
(quoted from post at 12:51:21 02/10/19)
Make the Massey has Live PTO (2 stage clutch). It makes life so much easier when doing PTO work.

There isn't much online info about that model. What kind of PTO is it?

Bob - what PTO would have come standard on the MF 3165?

I saw the Ford 4400 yesterday. It is quite stout! Honestly it's more tractor than I need, but other than fuel consumption, bigger is better right lol. The only negative was the tire tread was bad and would need new, or chains, so that's extra money.

Is the MF 3165 comparable is size and power? He's asking 900$ less and the tires are good, he sent me additional pictures.
[list:8055ab27b7]
mvphoto31296.jpg


mvphoto31297.jpg


mvphoto31298.jpg

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So the 861 and the.Massey 3165 both sold before I could get out to see them. I really wanted that Massey at $3800 but the guy sold it while he was on Vacation (strange right?)

Anyways the 4400 I went to see. It started right up on a cold day and ran very well. The owner is a mechanic. The right rear fender was weaked by rust, not a big deal. The biggest issue was it needs tires. Rear Tires I can buy locally here are 1000 + or more like 1300+ installed. Craigslist is lacking any used options at the moment.

So what's a good running 4400 worth that needs new tires?

Here is the link again.
https://rochester.craigslist.org/grd/d/hilton-tractor/6804239066.html
 
$4800 asking price is pretty close to what it would go for around here. I would mention the tires and how much they're going to cost when negotiating with the seller. Maybe he'll take a little less.
 

Is that $4800 with good rubber? I'd imagine good rubber v bad would affect price quite a bit. but maybe it doesn't matter.
 
I've found some 16.9 tires mounted on rims. But they are 26" rims not 24". They are off a Ford 4000, so they should fit, right??

Problem is they are on fixed wheels not the adjustable kind. Would I run into backspacing issues? I can't recall if the loader on the 4400 would cause clearance issues or not
 
Remember that there are two 4000s.
The earlier 4 cylinder ones had 8 lug on
6" pattern and the later 3 cyl 4000 used 8
on 8" lug pattern.
My friend has a 545 which is dimensionally
the same as a 4400.
It had non adjustable rims and real poor
16.9-24 tires on it. They had to be dished
out to clear the loader frame. Meant when
we hauled it home we had to borrow a
deckover trailer. He replaced the rims and
centers on it with adjustable ones off a
4400. We have them adjusted in so it will
fit on my trailer but there is only about
1/2" of clearance between the tires and
loader frame. He would like to run chains
in winter but would have to change the
width back - and take the chains off if he
wants to transport it.
Just a couple of "gotchas" for you to
consider.
 

I didn't realize there were two kinds of 4000s...

The tires I'm looking at are bolt pattern is 8", center hole is about 5 1/2"

The tractor I'm looking at has the same issue with clearances, he currently has them spaced out too. But the wheels were in the narrowest position.
 

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