850 5 speed trouble

Brando.001

New User
Almost a year ago I got a '55 850. It's the first tractor I've owned. I messed it up shortly after I got it... It's a weird shift pattern, maybe it was messed up before I got it?
Here's the story: I had the opportunity to trade for this 850, I absolutely love the way these tractors look. I bought parts for it before I officially owned it! New gauges, battery, over run clutch, tune up, muffler, gas cap, radiator cap carburetor, start button, 12v conversion, I dunno, whatever I thought it could need because I was excited to have something to "restore". I had drove it around a few times and started getting the feel of it. I wanted to load it up on the trailer and take it to the car wash to blow off some old dirt and oil. I noticed that I wasn't getting it into 1st and 2nd. Once I finally understood the shift pattern (which is pretty cool) I tried to find the middle point, push forward, pull back, and nothing. I tried and tried feeling for it, but it just wouldn't go in. Well, as I normally do, I ended up putting a lot of force on it, and got it into 1st! I figured it was because it hadn't ran in a while and just needed worked around a bit. I got it on the trailer, got it washed off, brought it home and realized it was not coming back out of gear. I then forced it back out into the neutral position (I know *cringe* *shake your head*) rolled it off the trailer. Now the shift lever is locked up, it will not move at all. I pulled the tractor to a place where I was able to take off the transmission cover and inspect it inside. I looked it over, drained the oil, shined a super bright flashlight in there and everything looks good, I dont see anything broken, but I must have something messed up. I gently used a pry bar to try and move the middle rod back, you can see marks on the upper and lower rods where they have been slid back and fourth, but the middle rod does not have those same marks. The tractor had sat for a few years before I got it, and I was not told there were any problems with the transmission, but then again, the guy I got it from didn't really use it and didn't know much about it because it had belonged to his dad who had passed away.
So it sat around all last summer as I had gotten busy, but now I am making it a priority, I now have the rear axle on jack stands and will open up the transmission plate and have another look at it soon when the weather cooperates. I had read online elsewhere to turn the motor by hand backwards to try and loosen it up if it's in a bind, so that's what i will attempt next time. Other than that I'm guessing I will have to split it and have the transmission taken apart to find the issue. I really don't want it to come to that though...
Does anyone have any advise on what to look for, or any tricks to get it freed up?




 

Yes, I believe so because I pulled it with my 4 wheeler, it had a bit of trouble but I think it was because it is a heavy tractor (filled tires) and I was in sandy soil slightly up an incline (Wife was driving tractor) Also, I have it on jack stands, I was playing with the wheels spinning them in the air, one spun forward while the other spun backwards, then one wheel was stopped as the jack stand block sitting next to the tire rubbed. I could still spin the one wheel while the other was stopped.
 
will the shifter move up and down (neutral range)?

I have been thru a 5 speed before, perhaps I can make a suggestion or two but I would like more details before taking any stabs in the dark
 

No, it will not move. Right now the shifter is locked up. Possibly if I could get the middle rod to move backwards slightly it would free up the shifter, but right now I don't want to put any more force on it.
 
This is as good a picture as I have of the shifter mechanism with the main shaft out of the way - it is designed in such a fashion as to preclude being able to get into more than one gear at a time -

If I were you at this point, I would drain the oil so I could see better and try to find where the mechanism is binding -

mvphoto30979.jpg


there are these detents associated with the shifter - three on the side of the case and one lower that's associated with the up and down movement of the shift lever - it is unlikely, but possible, that one or more of these are bound - they are easily accessed from the outside - I'd make sure I had addressed all the possibilities before going to the effort of splitting the tractor and disassembling the transmission -

do you have a shop manual?


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Pomester, thank you very much for your reply. This is why I joined this forum and got away from Facebook, Forums are where the real help is.
I actually did drain the oil, I had a very bright flashlight and inspected everything the best I could. I went back through my phone and found the pictures I took of when the oil was drained. I apologize, I forgot I had taken any. The inside of my transmission is very dark, I had also sprayed some brake cleaner on the rods to get a better look and was also hoping it would free up the rod if it was in a bind from goop. I ran a magnet down to the bottom and never picked up anything metal. (This was last May and I had forgotten exactly what I've tried so far) I had also taken out the detent springs and cleaned some goop out of there. I could not get the actual detent "balls" out though, so I need to re visit that possibility.
Also, If I remember right, I can get the top and the bottom rods to wiggle, but NOT the middle one.

When you took your picture of the inside of the trans, was it out of that tractor? was wondering if you can remove the rods without having to take the trans out.



 
I guess it would theoretically be possible to remove gear rails by leaving the transmission attached to the engine and separating the differential, but I don't see any advantage to it -

here's a link to the Ford/New Holland parts book https://partstore.agriculture.newholland.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr68035ar396440 - this may take you directly to your model transmission or you may need to search for it at the link -

I doubt you need to disassemble the transmission to address this - if the shifter won't move up and down then the interlock mechanism doesn't recognize that it's out of gear - it's been a few years since I did that job and I don't remember the exact workings of the mechanism - there's an interlock, the metal 'door like' mechanism between the shifter shaft and the transmission case which allows the transmission to be in only one gear at a time - I'd wager that is where the problem lies -

again, if you don't have a I&T manual on this machine, get one and study it to understand the mechanism -


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Its been awhile since I repaired one by this pix I took the shift rails come out the rear of the trans. It may be possible to drive the rails out it will knock the plugs out of the rear of the case I don't think they will hurt anything if left out... I have a old worn shifter that I replaced I will see if I can lay my hands on it so we can get a better idea how it comes out.


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Update time!
Ok, Finally I had a couple hours with good weather to work on the 850, and I Made some progress. A couple of weeks ago I snuck out and put the rear of the tractor up on some jack stands. This was so I could relieve a binding situation from the engine side or the differential side. Yesterday I turned the engine and made sure everything had moved and spun a bit like I had wanted. I took the transmission cover off, looked inside with a very bright flashlight, and noticed the 3 shift rods appeared to all be in a neutral position. I wiggled the guide plate inside, it seemed free. I tapped downward on the top of the shifter, and boom, it moved down! I was getting excited because I really thought this thing was locked up for good. I reinstalled the transmission cover and shifter. I was able to move it into the 2 top and bottom gears, however the middle 2 still are not reachable, the center shift rod will not budge. I removed the transmission cover again. I can slide the top and bottom shift rods freely by hand, but still the center will not move.
I turned my attention to the detent plunger. I remover the slotted cover and spring, fiddled at the plunger with a flat screw driver but could not get it out. I then removed the top slotted cover and spring to inspect the upper detent plunger, I could see it wiggling freely. I sprayed brake cleaner inside the center detent hole, cleaned out some old grease, but still could not get it to loosen up. I sprayed penetrating oil inside and filled the cover up with it and screwed it back in. I am hoping that will help dislodge the plunger.
Are there any tricks to removing a stuck plunger? I had thought about trying an easy out, or some kind of broken screw extractor. It looks like there is enough shoulder to grab inside the plunger for such a thing. What are your thoughts?
 

I would think you could wedge something in the detente plunger...
Try a wood dowel first worst case you would will not damage the plunder and if you break it off you can drill the wood out...

Good luck I thing you on to sum'N...
 
Alright, was blessed with more time to work on the 850 today. Nice weather to get to the bottom of things.
I couldn’t think of a better way to get the plunger out, I had checked this thread before I left, but there were no replies at the time. A wooden dowel probably would have been a great idea!
I stopped by harbor freight and picked up an eight dollar screw extractor kit. The biggest one just so happened to fit nicely. I lightly tapped it into the plunger and started spinning it counter clockwise. I could feel the plunger turning. I sprayed brake cleaner inside as I turned it, I could see more black hunk dislodging. I almost had the plunger all the way out when the extractor freed its self from the plunger. So I had to tap it into the plunger, this time a bit harder. I worked it slowly and pulled the plunger out. Very cool, it worked!
Next I tried to move the middle rod, but no, it still was not ready to budge. At this point I’ve narrowed the problem down to this stupid rod. I loosened the fork and the thing on the other end, the rod still won’t budge! I was thinking it’s got to be the rod being gunned up between it and the mounts on the case. Next, I took a bold step. I got some vice grips and found a spot on the rod that they would fit, a place that would not foul anything up if I chewed the rod up a bit. I clamped them down and twisted the rod up and down, it started to move!
I was only able to wiggle it a sixteenth of an inch, I sprayed brake cleaner on the part that the rod slides through the case, wiggled, sprayed, wiggled. I started to put some pressure on the rod pulling it back with a pry bar as I wiggled, it starts to slowly move. Spray, wiggle, pull, I slowly moved the rod all the way back! Well now I was worried I wouldn’t be able to move it forward so I found a piece of wood to pry against instead of any gears, I pryed and it moved back forward easier than I thought! I was on cloud 9. I spray, scrub with a plastic bristled brush and spray more of the black stuff that’s between the rod and the housing, then all of the sudden it becomes free! I could move it back and fourth using my hands.
I just put the cover on it and tested to see if I could find all of the gears, and sure enough, I have all 5.
Now if I can get more time, I gotta fill it with oil and see if it will start for me, it’s been about a year since it’s ran.
I can’t believe it was just gunked up! I guess no one ever used 1st and 2nd gear before.
 

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