Ultradog MN

Well-known Member
Location
Twin Cities
I bought this tractor about a month ago.
Knew it would be stuck bad as the stack was open for who knows how long.
I posted last week about a bare 201 block and crank l bought to replace it. I will use all the peripherals off this 192 to complete the 201.
Had hoped to use the cam and rods out of this one too but maybe not.
It warmed up yesterday so I pulled the head off.
Not very pretty.
Now I have doubts about saving the cam and rods. Maybe the crank will be saveable...
BTW, i had forgotted what a pia a gasser is to work on. All the extra air filter and firewall stuff they have on them.
Any thoughts on how to save these rods?
Pull the crank of course but I still doubt a guy can slug these pistons out even with an 8 lb sledge and 4X4 block of wood.
I do have other rods and a cam so don't HAVE to reuse these. Sad to see one so ugly aint it?.
 
Hmmm, photos didn't work.

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Since you are not looking to save the block or pistons how about some rust eater like molasses or Evaporust or phosphoric acid?
 
All the tin sure looks straight on this one, I would imagine getting those pistons to move will take some work.
Yes, sad to see one that could look very nice, with internal engine parts so corroded, especially this model.
 
Yikes! That's considerably worse than the stuck 233 I tore down several years ago. I ruined a rod on that one, driving a piston out. I think the only way you'll save the rods is by taking the pistons out in pieces.
 
Now that IS ugly.

I suppose you could try a press after lengthy soaking with your favorite brew.

Dean
 
I think that's the worst I've ever seen. It's going to be a challenge getting those rods out of there for sure. It would be one thing if you could drive the pistons down and then unpin them, but they have to go up. I don't lay very good odds on you being able to get any of those up and out.

It might be easiest to try and cut the pins out with a torch, but even that would get messy, and destroy at least the pin bushings for sure.
 
I have done engines that look just like that. trick is to push out the piston and sleeve together. but... on that ford don't know if it even has sleeves, so work on cleaning up the rust above the piston with a cyl. hone. soaking is a total waste of time. get it all as clean as possible .probably need a press to push the pistons out. if the crank is out of the way get a round piece of hardwood that fits in tight around sleeve. then smack it down as hard as you can with a 16 lb. sledge. pretty sure it will move. this is what I do. it just takes work and time buy they will come out.
 
Ugly is the word. I'd be looking to get the piston out in chunks. A couple days ago when it was -30 they would have been more brittle; you missed your window. No matter the temp they do not break easily. Seems risky to be swinging a sledge and block around the crankshaft you are trying to save.
 
no, you put the block on top the piston and pound down. did this to lots of engines in that same condition .
 
(quoted from post at 11:13:47 02/03/19) Not enough room for the pistons to come out the bottom. No sleeves, either.

What is in the way of them coming out the bottom?
 
Hi, please keep us posted on this I have a 4200 that the motor is in the same shape bought it with water seeping from the dip stick hole hauled it home and drained the pan not good. mine was built in 1966 I would like to keep it original sheet metal is good has the round fenders like yours just have not been able to start on it yet 3 cylinder gas, best of luck on yours
 
(quoted from post at 11:53:17 02/03/19) The main bearing support webs. Very few engines allow for the pistons coming out the bottom.

I should have thought of that. It has been only what? five days since I have pulled a set of pistons?
 
(quoted from post at 16:00:09 02/03/19) Get them moving whichever way you can. Then take them out the top.

Pull the crank, then do like Rick said, and beat the top down in with a chunk of wood that fits the piston, till it moves. Then take a wire wheel & grinder to the cylinders. Then drive them out the top with a chunk of wood from the bottom, like Rusted said.

I did that to a hemi that was almost that bad, but I saved the block. Had it bored, and then built it.

Pat
 
I never dug into one in quite that bad of shape but this is a good example of your mental attitude before you reach the midway point and start putting things back together. Real easy to get dis-allusioned and either give up or go to bed saying you're through with that mess only to get up the next morning and dig back in......at least you got a good nights sleep with that thing off your mind sort of thing.

I did give up on my last problem. My drum mower blew a couple of bearings and I ignored a little wobble because I didn't want to fool with it. Checking my equipment before haying season, I realized some corrective action needed to be accomplished before I tried to use it this year.

I decided to dig into it and when I got down to the axle upon which the cutter discs mount and found that it had 50 thousandths of runout that either had to be corrected via weld and machine shop lathe, or installing a new one (a reasonable $161), knowing I would have to completely tear into it to get the axle out and stripped of all it's components, working alone, and this thing being awkward anyway, I did the bobble a couple of times and caved in.

Funny I put it on Craig's list, had a full explanation of the situation, lots of pictures, nothing to hide, and had a reply 7 hours later and it sold to the first caller. I guess I had it priced right as one of the local used tractor implement shops, the second caller, wanted to give me within 50 bucks of my no-haggle must have price.
 
You can try dry ice and acetone or alcohol to shrink the piston. Worked on a
Packard v12. Needed a press and fixture. 6.5" bore, very hard to move. Muriatic
acid will take out the rust and some aluminum. I trust you know the precautions
to take with these concoctions.
 
Can you post pictures? A 4200 with round fenders has been mentioned before, but I've never seen one. One of my favorite models, anyway.
 

It works best if you can get the crank out of the block first, then use a block of wood and sledge hammer to drive the pistons down some.
A inch is plenty, use a heavy duty wire wheel to clean up the cylinder walls then coat them with your favorite penetrating lube, next use a block of wood and sledge to drive the pistons and rods up and out.
My 4000's engine looked similar to that when I got the tractor, after some serious sledge hammering to get the engine apart I was surprised when the block cleaned up with only a .020 over bore.

The early 192 gas engines used lighter duty rods than the diesels, later gas engines used the same rods as the diesels, they also upgraded to a higher lift cam during that period for more power.
Personally I wouldn't reuse the rods or cam from that engine even if they cleaned up good.
 
Sense you are not concerned about the block or pistons Muratic acid is a great rust eater just do it outside.
 
Lots of good replies here.
For now I probably won't do anything with this engine except pull the peripherals off as needed. The tractor is still a rolling chassis and I will keep it that way.
I do have another cam and set of rods in an early 175d that I will take out and use. That means a trip up to my property but so it goes.
I know that Ford changed the cam at some point to get a couple more ponies out of them.
I'm not too concerned about developing max hp out of this. Just going from a 192 to a 201 will give it a bump.
My main reasons for buying this tractor was because it was cheap and to use the trans/rear end to replace the SOS in my 4200. (yes, I'm determined to get rid of that thing) But this old thing is worthy of a new life so I will fix and sell it.
I'm not into it very deep and have a lot of parts on hand.
It will be another of my cobbled up creations.
It will get the rear half of a 4600 that I have
and the front half from this one.
Will be totally incorrect but with a fresh engine, decent tin and fenders and 60% rears should bring enough to make a profit and most of all give me the trans/rear end I want.
I'm a carpenter and just do this tractor stuff for stress relief. Don't need to feed cows or make a living at it so my labor isn't a real big part of it. Still nice to make your hobby pay for itself which I think this will.
Anyway, that's my plan and come he11 or high water (and resulting rust in the bores) I'm sticking to it.
If someone is interested in a good running SOS rear half - it's the deluxe one with 540/1000/GD pto, it will be available late summer or early fall. Come and drive it before I pull it.
Thanks to all. This is a great board.
Jerry
 

Nothing wrong with mix and match parts to get what you want.
Too bad we don't live closer together, we could do some swapping.
My 4000 AP has the trans and rear axle center housing from a 69 4200 with the longer gear shift levers, 201 diesel is a 72 service replacement engine, front axle assembly and hydrostatic steering are from a 3930, flat top fenders and external hyd filter are from a 4600, engine driven tach and dash are for a 30 Series, front grill shell is from a 5200 with the lower band removed, 30" power adjust wheels are 65-68 smooth centers, oil cooler radiator and 6 blade fan are the original gas SOS units.
 

I believe the early models may have had extensions but not 100% sure.
Mine are one piece sticks that are longer and a little heavier made.
I'll list photo's of the different sticks later with measurements.
 
Is that what's labeled Naval Jelly????? It's a jelly and you paint it on with a brush, let it sit and wash it off with the rust. Used it years ago and it really goes after stubborn rust.
 
UD, I'd rent a hand boring tool, self centers and has a carbide cutter that works its way around the cyls. Kinda like a fancy ridge reamer. O'Reilleys is where I rented mine from.

Cut cyl #2 first and then commence to banging em down just enough to clear the rest of the cleanup.
 

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