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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
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Question for Brn on 4630

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Majorman

01-09-2019 06:35:25




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Hi Bern, I have a friend with a Ford 4630 with Dual Power and shuttle transmission, he has had a Dual Power failure after many years of use where the plates have shed their lining and contaminated the oil. The cost of parts is horrendous ad he has been told it is better to scrap the tractor than attempt a gearbox repair. He has been told the gearbox is basically a Kubota, originally suspect from the early days and not worth repairing.

Here in England the tractor has an excellent reputation.

If the worst came to the worst can the Dual power unit be removed leaving the tractor with just a shuttle?

Kind regards
Brian

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Destroked 450

01-10-2019 07:56:19




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 Re: Question for Brn on 4630 in reply to Majorman, 01-09-2019 06:35:25  
The Kubota built shuttle shift transmissions used one the 3930, 4630 and 5030 are completely different from the standard Ford transmissions.

The dual power 16x8 has 2 sets of clutches driving 2 different input shafts whereas the standard ford dual power has 1 set of clutches and a planetary gear set.





As you can see in the photos in dual power the outer shaft and gear operates to main trans gears

In direct the inner shaft and gear operate the main trans gears

Theres a switch on the shift top that shifts the trans to dual power any time it's shifted into reverse.


Did some searching punching in the NH part numbers.

Industrial Motion Control Europe shows to have the clutches but one must request a quote to get the price, their site does give the dimensions of the disc.
Intella Liftparts in Holland, Mi has the clutch disc #83985647 for $12.94 each, much cheaper than NH's $56.38 each.

There are two different thickness steels,

# 83985648 is 1.60 mm thick
# 83985649 is 1.75 mm thick

You'll need to measure yours to know what you have if not both

Intella Liftparts shows to have the 1.75 mm steels for $13.89 verses NH's $45.54 but do not list the 1.60 mm steels.

This is a large savings over purchasing from NH but As I'd said before, if the oil pump, or valves are bad any other repairs would be a waist of time and money, without proper oil pressure to the clutch paks they will burn out again.

Surplus Stock World Wide shows to have oil pump #83985513 but didn't show the price.

I didn't search for the pressure regulating valve or pressure relief valve.

Sorry for the poor pics, I was holding the service manual in my lap while taking photo's

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showcrop

01-10-2019 03:40:28




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 Re: Question for Brn on 4630 in reply to Majorman, 01-09-2019 06:35:25  
I have a Ford 9000 which is of course much earlier. When I bought it it had no functioning dual power, so I bough a used one and put it in. There was what you might call a "Dual Power delete" shaft in it in it's place. There probably is one available for the 4630 as well. With respect to the parts. Ford never built any parts for the Dual Power except for the cast housing. They buy the parts in and put a huge mark-up on them to cover the cost of stocking inventory. When searching for parts I found that one source for the plates is Madison Tractor. They offer them for far less. If you do searches on eBay for these old parts, they often come up from other sources, simply because eBay is an excellent advertising platform for them. It is kind of like putting out a request for information to thousands of people instead of just one, LOL.

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showcrop

01-10-2019 03:35:28




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 Re: Question for Brn on 4630 in reply to Majorman, 01-09-2019 06:35:25  
I have a Ford 9000 which is of course earlier. When I bought it it had no functioning dual power, so I bough a used one and put it in. There was what you might call a "Dual Power delete shaft in it in it's place. There probably is one available for the 4630 as well. With respect to the parts. Ford never built anything but the cast housing. They buy the parts in and put a huge mark-upon them to cover the cost of stocking inventory. When searching for parts I found that one source for the plates is Madison Tractor. They offer them for far less. If you do searches on eBay for these old parts, they often come up from other sources, simply because eBay is an excellent advertising platform for them. It is kind of like putting out a request for information to thousands of people instead of one, LOL.

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showcrop

01-09-2019 19:06:48




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 Re: Question for Brn on 4630 in reply to Majorman, 01-09-2019 06:35:25  
I have some experience with this but my name is not Bern.



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Bern

01-09-2019 21:19:55




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 Re: Question for Brn on 4630 in reply to showcrop, 01-09-2019 19:06:48  
Don't feel shy about answering. I couldn't help him.



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Destroked 450

01-09-2019 18:27:49




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 Re: Question for Brn on 4630 in reply to Majorman, 01-09-2019 06:35:25  
I have one of those transmissions here out of a 5030, unfortunately the dual power clutches are burnt up due to a bad oil pump.

The answer to your question is NO, these transmissions are completely different from the ones ford uses in the larger models.

There are 2 sets of clutches that each power a separate set of gears in the trans, when I took this trans apart a few years ago a complete set of clutches and steels were nearly $1000 US.

Before ordering any parts inspect the oil pump for wear, also check the relief valve and pressure regulating valve for wear and scoring.

When I was trying to repair this trans the last 2 oil pumps in North America where in Quebec, Canada priced at $1008 each, the pressure regulating valve is NLA, the shift solenoid is also NLA.

For the tractor I was working on I replaced the 16x8 dual power shuttle shift trans with a 8x8 shuttle shift trans from a junk tractor.

If everything looks ok but the clutches I'd see if a automotive transmission shop could match them

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Bern

01-09-2019 17:50:21




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 Re: Question for Brn on 4630 in reply to Majorman, 01-09-2019 06:35:25  
Hi there,

I'm sorry to say that I have zero personal experience with the Dual Power on those later tractors, so I cannot speak intelligently with regards to possibly taking the Dual Power out.

With regards to parts, if all you need are clutch plates, I've got to think that there are aftermarket solutions available. Maybe a clutch rebuilder?



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Majorman

01-10-2019 06:46:07




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 Re: Question for Brn on 4630 in reply to Bern, 01-09-2019 17:50:21  
Many thanks to all who answered, it will be a great help to my friend. I am not up on Ford tractors after the 10 Series but spent many years working on the older versions like the Major, Dexta and the X and Y series.



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