PTO Seal replacement.

Texasmark1

Well-known Member

Going after 2 of them: '65 3000 Live PTO and '88 3910 independent PTO. Getting the seal off and on the shaft is not the question.

Question is, any gotchas once you pull the shaft out on either....like is there a trick getting the splines to line up or anything else of a concern on the return.....differences to expect with Live vs Ind? PTO gearing relating to the shaft insertion.

As always, thanks for your time and expertise.

Mark
 
If only replacing rear seal there is no need to pull entire shaft on either tractor. Just remove the retainer housing and replace the seal.If removing the shaft on the 3000 you could have issue's reinstalling from the shift coupler resolved by removing the side plate that the selector lever is mounted in. On the 3910 a thrust washer could cause realignment issues.I hope i have understood your question correctly.
 
If all the snap rings are in place there?s no way to remove the seal retainer without pulling the shaft. That said, the seal can be replaced from the outside with everything in place.
 
I was watching a home brew type replacement on utube this am and he popped the 4 screws, pried the retainer loose and then out it came with the shaft. 2 retaining clips on the inside were removed (awkwardly) and then the bearing was pried off toward the tractor end of the shaft and once off followed by the carrier and seal. This was on a 3000 live.

I saw a second where the guy used a home made adpater that had sheet metal screws that screwed into the seal. Then hooking the adapter plate to a wheel puller with the center on the rear of the shaft the carrier and seal was removed.....without removing the shaft. This is kinda what I thought......the seal and carrier ought to come off the end of the shaft.

I don't have a problem mentally/physically having to remove the shaft if that is what it takes. I understand that male/female splines have to be lined up to get the shaft back if removed.

What worries me, especially with the Ind. PTO in the 3910 is that if I pull the shaft, something will fall out of place and the shaft won't go back in without a teardown to manually hold the gears/plates/whatever in place while the shaft is reseated.

I have a huge OEM shop manual on the 3000 and I and T on the 3910 but they don't hit my main concern.

Thanks for the progress but continued discussion would really help.

Thanks,
Mark
 
Book says when pulling the shaft on a 2/3000 twin stick model to put the pto in gear.
That will keep the sliding coupler from dropping down.
If you forget you can replace it by removing the round plate but engaging it will prevent the extra work.
 

Haven done a 3000 pto seal in years so don't remember what is needed, recently replaced the seal in a 3930 with ind pto.
I drain the oil then remove the 4 bolts holding the pto carrier on and pull the shaft assembly out.
After removing the internal snap ring remove the carrier and seal from the shaft and bearing, I bump the end of the shaft against a anvil or piece of thick steel until the carrier falls off of the bearing.
After you've replaced the seal and installed the carrier back onto the shaft slide it back into the tractor. There a washer that drops down preventing the shaft from going back in, simply push in on the shaft while turning it and it will walk the washer back up into position for the shaft to go back the the clutch pack, rotate the shaft back and forth until it splines up and the carrier slides completely against the axle housing.
Draining the oil, replacing the seal and refilling takes about a hour if your not in a hurry.

Some use a broom handle with grease to hold the washer in place but I've never had problem walking it into place by pushing and rotating the shaft.
 
Thinking about the two shafts and the sliding coupling, what you say makes perfect sense. I'll be sure and remember that.

Thank you sir.
 
I guess the broom handle serves like a clutch disc alignment tool in a stick shift. The grease would hold it in position....I guess the washer stays pretty
much in place, doesn't fall out, just falls down slightly????? I guess if I can't walk it back in with the shaft, I put some grease on a stick and smear it
where the washer is supposed to rest then catch the washer with the greasy end of the stick and press it into position??? Then return the shaft.

On setting the tractor on a hill so that you don't have to drain the oil.....I just put fresh oil in all the sumps about 30 hours ago and if the hill would work
I'd like to try that. You ever try it and if so remember how many degrees of tilt required? I think that combo sump is 12 gallons. I have a nice 30 degree
hill right outside my shop. What I might do is to set it up on that and if it wants to come out, drain off 3-4 gallons or so till it stops then filter it as I
return it.

Comments?
 
Nice to do it in the shop. Especially if
it's set up correctly.
P1010006-1.jpg
 
Gotcha on the tilt angle. Thanks guys for taking the time to help me. Feel much more confident about a seamless (HA that ever happen????) changeout.
 
(quoted from post at 22:19:31 12/01/18)
I have a couple of clean 9 gallon wash tubs I keep handy to drain the oil in, I'd rather do the work in my shop than on a hill.

I'm with you on not using the hill trick. One of the guys I used to work with parked his Super C nose down on a hill and in gear to work on the pto, then figured it was a good idea to change sparkplugs too. Good thing it wasn't much of a hill, it took off when he pulled the 3rd plug out.
 
(quoted from post at 09:35:40 12/02/18)
(quoted from post at 22:19:31 12/01/18)
I have a couple of clean 9 gallon wash tubs I keep handy to drain the oil in, I'd rather do the work in my shop than on a hill.

I'm with you on not using the hill trick. One of the guys I used to work with parked his Super C nose down on a hill and in gear to work on the pto, then figured it was a good idea to change sparkplugs too. Good thing it wasn't much of a hill, it took off when he pulled the 3rd plug out.

Made me spit coffee.... LOL
 
Sometimes we are too close to what we are doing....has happened to me numerous times. When I built my house in '79 I designed it functionally from the inside....didn't think about outside
appearance. One day a neighbor came over and had a LOL. I said what's the big deal. He said that the top of all my windows aren't even nor even with the top of the door. Yepper. Might look
funny to some.

Thing is, looking at brick homes around here (mine is frame with manufactured siding.....I'm not a brick mason), at least the way they used to be built (nice simple rooflines, single story), easiest
way to design the structure is to have the bricks stop along a straight line and fill in above the bricks to the soffit with a piece of Masonite. So right, wrong, style, preference or whatever, I was
too close to my work to suit some.
 
Waiting on parts. Seems the shippers haven't realized that lots of folks, rural types like me to name one, do a lot of online shopping and they had better ramp up their delivery services because "The Wave" is coming.

USPS brings my mail to the farm. Used to be route man that runs 88 miles per day when he made only one round and had mail out before 2PM.....then it was by 2:30, then 4, now if I get it before dark I'm lucky. Other thing FedX has tied in with them for some rural deliveries.....of which I think a great idea...makes sense.

Timing being what it was, a few days ago I caught him at the house. We discussed the above. He said that sometimes he goes back to the PO loads up again and back out he goes (in his 4door Jeep POV). He said some days he makes 6 trips...I asked the 88 miles? He said not the full route. He added I'd like to get home before dark.....yeah I can understand trying to deliver mail (including packages that don't fit in the mail box) after dark in rural areas. His hair is as white as mine.
 
I watched the same you tube post of the fellow removing the pto seal with the sheet metal screws and gear puller. I removed the seal in my 4600 using his method. Worked like a charm. I didnt want to have a problem with the thrust washer.
 
This afternoon was clear and warm. I went after the 3000 seal. Removal wasn't obvious and I didn't want to force things since I was using a 12 ton press. Got out my 2" 1965-1974 2" OEM manual, no directions on which way to press what. Got out the I and T FO40....same thing. Got out my old OEM Red/black/white covered 100 series manual....like was discussed a couple of days ago and it told you which way to push what. Knowing which was the right direction, I continued to push rather than hesitate and sure-nuf the seal popped and started moving.

Maybe tomorrow I'll hit the 3910 and feel more confident as I know at least something about how things come apart.
 
Another nice day. 3910 went really smooth. 20+ fewer years of weather soaking or whatever does make a difference on getting parts apart.
 

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