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6610 starter help

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wlf89

10-23-2018 17:02:42




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my old starter was getting draggy and grinding, so i ordered a new one. got it in other day and put it on, and it justs clicks when try to start it. it will engage anywhere from 1-50 trys turning the key. today i took it back off and tested it with jumper cables and crossed the solenoid with screw driver and it would engage everytime. put it back on and cleaned all of my connections and still just clicks and engages randomly.
i can hear and feel the solenoid clicking.
it is getting full volts to the switch wire going to the solenoid.
anyone have any ideas what the problem might be?

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wlf89

10-28-2018 17:30:00




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 Re: 6610 starter help (update) in reply to wlf89, 10-23-2018 17:02:42  
replaced the wire from the ign switch to the solenoid and seems to have fixed the problem.



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RodInNS

10-25-2018 15:44:26




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to wlf89, 10-23-2018 17:02:42  
I agree with Bern that a relay will solve your problem. All I've ever used is a headlight cube relay which is probably 30 amp rating. They've worked fine for me. If you can get your hands on a heavier relay easily then go with it. Not going to lose anything going larger.

Rod



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Destroked 450

10-25-2018 07:43:49




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to wlf89, 10-23-2018 17:02:42  
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Not sure how many amps it takes but the wire running from the key switch to the starter is pretty small to be throwing 70 amps at it.

I've had a 30 amp "may be a 40 amp" relay wired into the 4000SU for a little over 4 years now, we'll see how long it last.

After thinking about it it's odd that my pickup has a 30-40 amp relay in the starter circuit and a 70 amp relay operating the pull side of the fuel shutdown solenoid, once the solenoid is engaged there's a 15 amp fuse powering the hold circuit.

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Bern

10-25-2018 08:44:25




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to Destroked 450, 10-25-2018 07:43:49  
The circuit from the key switch to the starter has to be at least 12 gauge from factory, so I would consider that to be a "high flow" circuit. As for how many amps a starter solenoid actually draws, it is massive at first as the pull-in winding is energized. A Delco-Remy 42MT starter draws upwards of 100 amps initially.



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Bern

10-25-2018 10:22:50




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to Bern, 10-25-2018 08:44:25  
I should have been more clear.....a Delco Remy 42MT starter SOLENOID draws upwards of 100 amps initially. This does not include the 1000 (one-thousand) plus amps this starter might draw turning over a 15 liter diesel engine on a cold morning.



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David G

10-24-2018 18:50:00




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to wlf89, 10-23-2018 17:02:42  
Mine does that when the neutral switch is off, any different if you move lever back and forth?



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wlf89

10-24-2018 15:20:44




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to wlf89, 10-23-2018 17:02:42  
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ok how about this route? i made me a jumper wire with a spade terminal on it, stuck that on the solenoid and touched the other end to the battery post and it would engage everytime. so how about i just but a push button starter switch on it? got 4 other tractors with them and they work fine.



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Bern

10-24-2018 15:55:06




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to wlf89, 10-24-2018 15:20:44  
That would work, but it would never leave my shop that way because the neutral safety switch has been bypassed. If you are the only one running the tractor, that may be fine for you, but if you have hired help and/or young relatives running this machine, you may wish to think twice about that. More than once I've gone to start up a Ford tractor from the ground and had the rear tire brush up against my leg before I let go of the key.

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Destroked 450

10-24-2018 14:31:54




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to wlf89, 10-23-2018 17:02:42  
That's the type of relay I was talking about only I just used a 30 amp.



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Bern

10-24-2018 15:56:11




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to Destroked 450, 10-24-2018 14:31:54  
I go with a 70-amp version because over time the contacts in a 30-amp relay would likely burn out. It takes more than 30 amps to move that plunger in the starter solenoid.



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Destroked 450

10-24-2018 11:38:31




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to wlf89, 10-23-2018 17:02:42  
My 4000SU started giving problems when starting, did the usual test and found intermittent voltage to the start circuit, problem turned out to be corroded connections in the multi wire connector that connects the front harness to the dash harness.

I later wired in a simple 30 amp relay that I mounted to the fuel tank support bracket beside the battery.



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wlf89

10-24-2018 08:54:48




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to wlf89, 10-23-2018 17:02:42  
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do you think that will likely cure my problem?



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wlf89

10-24-2018 08:52:46




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to wlf89, 10-23-2018 17:02:42  
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dont think i can get to it good enough to, between the loader and fuel filters its tight in there



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Bern

10-24-2018 12:13:12




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to wlf89, 10-24-2018 08:52:46  
If you feel it's too tight in there, find yourself a 70-amp mini relay such as the one shown in the link below. Terminal 30 goes to battery hot, terminal 87 goes to the starter engage spade terminal, terminal 86 is now the wire that WAS going to the starter (the one you were probing with your meter), and terminal 85 needs to go to ground.

And yes, that WILL fix your problem.

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wlf89

10-24-2018 08:35:34




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to wlf89, 10-23-2018 17:02:42  
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you was right only 5.7v with it hooked up. anymore info on the relay youre talking about like a part number and how it hooks up and i will look into it.

i also put a new spade terminal on there yesterday when i took the starter off to bench test it, made no difference.



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Bern

10-24-2018 08:45:18




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to wlf89, 10-24-2018 08:35:34  
Go to any auto parts store and ask for a "Ford starter relay". Any good auto parts guy should immediately know what that looks like. See link below.

Bolt the new relay in the location shown. Run a new hot wire (10 gauge) to one of the big posts. Run a new wire (10 gauge) from the other big post to the starter engagement terminal. Run the existing wire to the "S" terminal of the relay. third party image

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Sean in PA

10-24-2018 07:56:59




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to wlf89, 10-23-2018 17:02:42  
From your description of what you have done, I don't think that you have, but maybe my understanding is off, have you tried jumping the battery directly to the new starter while it is installed in the tractor?



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showcrop

10-24-2018 05:58:48




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to wlf89, 10-23-2018 17:02:42  
Your problem is an extremely common one. Though there are other causes the problem usually turns out to be positively clean connections not being clean enough. I hate to admit that I had this problem recently myself.



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Texasmark1

10-24-2018 05:54:37




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to wlf89, 10-23-2018 17:02:42  
You changed the starter but not the starting relay. If the starting relay worked for the other one why shouldn't it work for this one? The energizing circuit has no idea as to what's going on in the high current circuit....2 completely separate functions. Only thing I can see that would be solenoid related is that your high current contacts within it were pitted due to old age and this new starter is capable of sucking more amps and the pitted contacts won't carry the extra current.

However, in changing the starter, you changed the grounding of the starter. Possibly in your connections there is more resistance than was before.....like maybe there is a layer of paint on the new starter that prevents adequate current (200-300 amps) from flowing through the ground (return) path back to the battery -.

Easy enough to check the problem: Put a voltmeter across the metallic case of the starter and the ⅜" copper stud input. Roll the starter...when you can get it to roll and see if you have at least 10 volts. If not, The difference between your battery voltage during starting (measure that too.....your battery may be sulphated up and unable to deliver the required current) and what you read across the starter is in the interconnect. Could be the solenoid itself, or the wiring between the battery and the starter inputs.

Other possibilities are the key switch has finally worn out, or if you have the safety switch in the transmission it may have decided to get intermittent due to age and wear.

Last "I" would expect the new starter to be at fault....but with the problem you posted, I don't see a failure mechanism within the starter especially a new one.

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wlf89

10-24-2018 04:30:14




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to wlf89, 10-23-2018 17:02:42  
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yes i did check with the wire off, i will check it with it on today. but the old starter never failed to work just sounded awful when you cranked it. i will report back in few hours when i get around to checking it.



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Bern

10-24-2018 05:31:35




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to wlf89, 10-24-2018 04:30:14  
If your old starter "never missed a beat", check the female spade terminal carefully for any spread contacts. It's possible that they were spread when you removed and reinstalled the wire in question. This can also happen if you shoved a meter probe inside. Make sure it takes a noticeable force to install the wire on the terminal. If not, take a pair of pliers and give it a little squeeze.



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Bern

10-23-2018 17:34:48




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 Re: 6610 starter help in reply to wlf89, 10-23-2018 17:02:42  
You say that you have "full volts going to the switch wire". I can almost guarantee that you did that test with the wire off of the starter. Try that same test with the wire still connected and tell me what you get - it will most likely be 6-7 volts or so, not enough to make the starter engage.

This is a common issue on Fords of that vintage, and is best solved with the addition of a relay like the gas 5000s had. Otherwise, check all of your connections between the key switch and the starter carefully. Pay special attention to the neutral safety switch in the transmission.

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