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Order Ford 4000 Parts Online

4000 Won't crank

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johnnykick

05-27-2018 08:54:36




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Visiting my son who is working on a 1964 4000 gasoline engine, 4 cylinder, 12 Volt, negative ground. The engine won't crank and he's replaced both starter and starter relay. The only component he hasn't checked is the neutral safety switch. He doesn't have a maintenance manual and we can't find the safety switch. Where is it located on this model? Thanks.




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IanC

05-28-2018 12:20:44




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to johnnykick, 05-27-2018 08:54:36  
The '53 to '64 neutral "switch" (at least on gear tractors) was the button could not be pushed to close the contacts until the shifter was in neutral thereby allowing the plunger that comes out of the bottom of the switch to clear the mechanism. I know,run on sentence, F in "language arts" for me. Select-O-Speed used a different system.



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Johnnykick

05-28-2018 11:14:30




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to johnnykick, 05-27-2018 08:54:36  
So true...the 1955 Farmall i'm working has had several modifications.



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Larry NCKS

05-28-2018 11:13:03




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to johnnykick, 05-27-2018 08:54:36  
That's an error in learning then. All '64 4000 gasoline models, as far as the electrical system goes, were created equal! What's been done to 'em since they rolled off the assembly line, however, is anybody's guess.



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Johnnykick

05-28-2018 11:13:02




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to johnnykick, 05-27-2018 08:54:36  
Thanks for the drawings...we have it wired that way except have bypassed the ignition switch.

I performed a search for the Tisco, Part number D2AF11450AA solenoid that my son purchased...came across this YT thread from long ago:

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ford&th=355914

So I run a test putting the hot on terminal S and bingo, it worked. I'm ordering the recommend solenoid:

http://www.link_disallowed/cgi-bin/sh000002.pl?WD=uf40680&PN=UF40680--Starter-Solenoid--relay-type---Replaces-311006-71687%2ehtml#SID=9847

As they said, not all 1964's are created equal.

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Johnnykick

05-28-2018 10:29:20




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to johnnykick, 05-27-2018 08:54:36  
Thanks for the drawings....we have it wired that way but have bypassed the ignition switch. I did a search for the solenoid Tisco, Part number D2AF11450AA and found the following thread on the forum.

https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ford&th=355914

Indeed, I performed the test by putting the hot on the S terminal and it worked. So, I plan on ordering the following solenoid and hopefully I will be good to go.

[img]http://www.link_disallowed/cgi-bin/sh000002.pl?WD=uf40680&PN=UF40680--Starter-Solenoid--relay-type---Replaces-311006-71687%2ehtml#SID=9847[/img]

So, we have learned that not all 1964's are created equal.

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Dollar Bill

05-28-2018 03:23:33




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to johnnykick, 05-27-2018 08:54:36  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

12 volt conversions can be troublesome to isolate a problem due to the myriad ways of making the conversion.

Attached are diagrams that may prove helpful in your fault isolation - Good luck!

third party image

third party image

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Larry NCKS

05-27-2018 18:37:20




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to johnnykick, 05-27-2018 08:54:36  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

You have to have 12 volts connected to the I terminal. Then by grounding the S terminal it should energize the starter. I would think that if you had the automotive solenoid, grounding the S terminal would cause a spark.



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Johnnykick

05-27-2018 17:03:04




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to johnnykick, 05-27-2018 08:54:36  
Yes...the first thing I check...I'm using a meter for voltage and I'm getting a good 12V where it should be except on the starter side of the solenoid. I found letters on the old solenoid, S for the ground, and a letter I on the right side where there was no terminal. So, I ran a 12V wire from the battery to the I terminal...no change.



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Larry NCKS

05-27-2018 15:43:36




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to johnnykick, 05-27-2018 08:54:36  
On further thought, I haven't heard anything about battery or battery cables. Is the battery charged and all cables in good shape and connections clean?



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Johnnykick

05-27-2018 15:43:03




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to johnnykick, 05-27-2018 08:54:36  
I'll check with NAPA tomorrow...there should be a store near here somewhere. In the meantime, are you saying that connecting a 12V wire to one of the small posts should activate the solenoid?



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Larry NCKS

05-27-2018 15:38:09




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to johnnykick, 05-27-2018 08:54:36  
A tractor that age has been around a good while. If it's been owned by anyone else it's hard to tell what mods they did to it. I believe Ford stopped using the 3 post somewhere in 00 series tractors, but am not absolutely certain of that.

My guess, from afar, is that you have the automotive 4 post solenoid and need to find one that grounds at one of the small posts. If they're marked that should be the S terminal. I know NAPA has the correct one as I've seen others post NAPA parts numbers here.

The difference between the 3 post and the 4 post is that the engine should crank whenever the starter switch is activated whether or not the ignition switch is on with a 3 post. The 4 post requires the ignition switch to be turned on to provide a source of power for activation.

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Johnnykick

05-27-2018 15:06:53




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to johnnykick, 05-27-2018 08:54:36  
third party imageI tried your instructions and no change. I've uploaded a photo of the old relay and the new one. Neither relay has lettering identifying the terminals. I'm puzzled as to why this tractor had a 3 terminal...I did some additional reading and the 4 terminal should work for this model.

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Larry NCKS

05-27-2018 14:17:45




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to johnnykick, 05-27-2018 08:54:36  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Nope! The safety on this system is that one cannot depress that button if the transmission is not in neutral. It only serves as a grounding point for the starter solenoid.



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Larry NCKS

05-27-2018 14:15:24




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to johnnykick, 05-27-2018 08:54:36  
'64 should have a four post. With the I terminal verified hot, try grounding the S terminal direct to chassis with a new wire that is verified good with an ohmmeter. If that doesn't work, you have the wrong configuration in your 4 post solenoid as others have said. The more common 4 post automotive solenoid provides unresisted power to the ignition circuit from the I terminal rather than a grounding source for the starter.

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Johnnykick

05-27-2018 13:52:07




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to johnnykick, 05-27-2018 08:54:36  
Mike Groom, continuity on the starter button is good, but I bypassed it anyway and connected the button wire to a solid ground; they have bypassed the ignition switch. I have 12 volts coming into the relay and nothing on the starter side. Regarding the relay, I checked his old one (3 post) and can't get any voltage on the starter side. He purchased 4 post and can't get it work either. So, I'm assuming he needs a genuine 3 post, or instructions on what to do with the extra post?

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Destroked 450

05-27-2018 11:25:26




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to johnnykick, 05-27-2018 08:54:36  
Did he get the correct relay, the one for those tractors is not the same as ones for automobiles.



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Mike Groom

05-27-2018 11:21:00




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to johnnykick, 05-27-2018 08:54:36  
Make sure the tractor is in neutral,then either take the wire on the back of the starter button off and short it to ground to see if the starter button is bad or just use a jumper wire from ground to the wire while it is hooked up to the switch to see if it turns over,in effect you are bypassing the push button either way,if it does not crank over check to see if you have power in the wire coming to the start button and trace back from there to possibly the ignition switch.

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grayrider

05-27-2018 09:25:57




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to johnnykick, 05-27-2018 08:54:36  
third party image

I have same tractor, my finger is pointing at it in picture



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johnnykick

05-27-2018 09:29:10




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 Re: 4000 Won't crank in reply to grayrider, 05-27-2018 09:25:57  
Ahh....dual purpose switch. Many thanks.



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