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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
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641 in frame rebuild question

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BILLBENDER

07-10-2017 06:07:33




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I have decided that I'm going to have to dive into my motor. It starts and runs good but when you put it under a load it loses all power and starts smoking badly. My question is how difficult is an in frame rebuild? I have never rebuilt one so just didn't know the difficulty. Any pointers would help.




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D. Prater

07-16-2017 16:25:08




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 Re: 641 in frame rebuild question in reply to BILLBENDER, 07-10-2017 06:07:33  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see I also thought they didnt have cam bearings. The first time I helped my father rebuild a diesel I said to him that there werent any cam bearings. The cam journals are very large though.



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Destroked 450

07-11-2017 07:08:13




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 Re: 641 in frame rebuild question in reply to BILLBENDER, 07-10-2017 06:07:33  
On the early 4 cylinder engines the cam ran in the block, Ford started using cam bearings in the 65-later engines.



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mmfan55

07-10-2017 19:18:52




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 Re: 641 in frame rebuild question in reply to BILLBENDER, 07-10-2017 06:07:33  
I would start (after the testing already stated) at pulling the head and having a good machine shop check it out. You will want to do that anyway if you overhaul: but you may find your biggest problem may be badly worn valve guides or valve stems. With the head off: you can see how much ring groove is in the cylinders and feel how loose (or tight) the pistons are in the bore. With it running okay until it gets a load, a good head rebuild may fix you up for a good while.

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showcrop

07-10-2017 16:19:09




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 Re: 641 in frame rebuild question in reply to BILLBENDER, 07-10-2017 06:07:33  
Certain parts of the job are so much easier with the engine upside down on a stand, that it makes the work to remove it insignificant.



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BILLBENDER

07-10-2017 12:35:57




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 Re: 641 in frame rebuild question in reply to BILLBENDER, 07-10-2017 06:07:33  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

What exactly would o be looking for on a wet dry test? The compression I did was first on a cold engine and then on a hot engine. I didn't do a wet test though.



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old

07-10-2017 13:07:53




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 Re: 641 in frame rebuild question in reply to BILLBENDER, 07-10-2017 12:35:57  
A wet test sort of seals things that are leaking like valves that may not be set as they should be or rings not sealing like they once did



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soundguy

07-10-2017 12:21:26




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 Re: 641 in frame rebuild question in reply to BILLBENDER, 07-10-2017 06:07:33  
i'd do a wet / dry compression test on her first. see what you have. never know.. might just be top end head work..



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BILLBENDER

07-10-2017 09:16:49




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 Re: 641 in frame rebuild question in reply to BILLBENDER, 07-10-2017 06:07:33  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Thank you for your input. That is why I asked.



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BILLBENDER

07-10-2017 08:06:14




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 Re: 641 in frame rebuild question in reply to BILLBENDER, 07-10-2017 06:07:33  
I have pulled and cleaned the air cleaner and carb. Ran compression and while the numbers were good 118-125 one cylinder was around 105. After running cylinders 1 &4 the sparks plugs are wet with oil while the other 2 are fine. Haven't pulled air hose off carb but will tonight. I was asking about in frame because I saw it was an option for this tractor on this site. I just didn't know of anyone had any luck doing it that way. I don't have much engine experience so I thought I'd ask.

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sunbeam

07-10-2017 13:39:59




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 Re: 641 in frame rebuild question in reply to BILLBENDER, 07-10-2017 08:06:14  
You might try just replaceing valve stem seals especially if it smokes more at an idle.



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old

07-10-2017 09:21:03




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 Re: 641 in frame rebuild question in reply to BILLBENDER, 07-10-2017 08:06:14  
In frame rebuild is a good way to end up with a block with a hole in it. Unless your set up to Mike each and every wear point of the crank shaft you do not know if your putting good on bad which can/will lead to big problems down the road. Only engines I have ever seen that a true in frame rebuild held up was the big diesel engine in the over the road trucks and even then you Miked the crank to make sure it was good before putting in new parts.

If your going to rebuild and engine pull the engine out have the block checked and dipped to clean it have the crank checked and turned if needed and have the head rebuild by a good machine shop

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welding man

07-10-2017 08:31:34




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 Re: 641 in frame rebuild question in reply to BILLBENDER, 07-10-2017 08:06:14  
I have ranted on this too many times,probably. We rebuild engines for a living . I have 5 in the shop now. We do not do in frame rebuilds,period. Too hard to check the crank,replace the seals.Sleeves are much easier to replace out of the tractor. What about the gears,camshaft etc. An in frame rebuild is a job half done,I don't care who does it. If you want to hone the cylinders and put a set of rings and rod bearings in it you will end up with just what you paid for. A half of a job for half of the money.That's your choice and now I will shut up.

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Larry NCKS

07-10-2017 06:26:13




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 Re: 641 in frame rebuild question in reply to BILLBENDER, 07-10-2017 06:07:33  
What diagnostics have you done to arrive at the need to rebuild your engine?

Is your air cleaner clean? I don't mean just the oil sump. Pull the air cleaner hose off the carb. Put it under the same load. Does it still smoke badly?

The engine basically is the frame on that tractor. I guess one could do an overhaul without removing the engine, but you'd be hard put to service cam bearings. Besides that I don't believe you'd save yourself any labor.

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WayneIA

07-10-2017 11:09:59




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 Re: 641 in frame rebuild question in reply to Larry NCKS, 07-10-2017 06:26:13  
When did Ford put cam bearings in there gas tractor engines?



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markct

07-11-2017 05:37:28




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 Re: 641 in frame rebuild question in reply to WayneIA, 07-10-2017 11:09:59  
Everyone I ever opened had bushings the camshaft ran in



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Ultradog MN

07-11-2017 04:19:11




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 Re: 641 in frame rebuild question in reply to WayneIA, 07-10-2017 11:09:59  
Not sure when but all 65 and newer have them.
I just replaced a set on a 3 cyl.



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