Ford 641 parking brake

mr_flintstone · Jul 4, 2017

My 641's right side parking brake seems to be hooked up wrong. The rod is hooked to the front hole in the locking mechanism, but the spring seems to push down on the pedal all the time. The one on the left side lifts the pedal up. Anyone have a picture or diagram that shows the correct way this works?

john in la · Jul 4, 2017

The spring on the parking brake rod pushes down on both sides and there is no way this small tension spring it pushing your brake pedal down.

So lets clarify this also.
Is your problem that your right brake pedal will not return to the correct position or are you having parking brake problems.

mr_flintstone · Jul 4, 2017

I guess I'm showing my ignorance on this subject, but I thought that the parking brake springs also functioned as brake return springs. On my tractor, the left hand lever is raised and the parking brake spring is compressed when the brake pedal is pressed. When the pedal is released, the spring returns it to its normal position.

On the right hand side, the lever goes down and the spring tension is released when the pedal is pressed; and when the pedal is released, the spring holds the pedal down.

I also noticed that the parking brake spring rods are different from the ones that I see on the Internet. Those are two pieces with a handle connected to the rod. Mine are just a rod with a hook at the top.

showcrop · Jul 5, 2017

The two hooks need to face in opposite directions simply because the to shafts that apply the brakes turn in opposite directions. The little spring that makes the lock retract doesn't help the bake shoes to retract.

mr_flintstone · Jul 5, 2017

OK, so I obviously need a brake return spring that fits inside the drum. Does anyone know if these (or a suitable replacement) can be purchased at auto parts stores, or will I have to order one? If I can purchase locally at Napa etc..., I can fix it while I'm off for the 4th. If not, it'll have to wait a while.

showcrop · Jul 5, 2017

(quoted from post at 08:31:57 07/05/17)
OK, so I obviously need a brake return spring that fits inside the drum. Does anyone know if these (or a suitable replacement) can be purchased at auto parts stores, or will I have to order one? If I can purchase locally at Napa etc..., I can fix it while I'm off for the 4th. If not, it'll have to wait a while.

I don't see any connection to this discussion and a need for springs inside the drum.

mr_flintstone · Jul 5, 2017

(quoted from post at 09:24:26 07/05/17)

(quoted from post at 08:31:57 07/05/17)
OK, so I obviously need a brake return spring that fits inside the drum. Does anyone know if these (or a suitable replacement) can be purchased at auto parts stores, or will I have to order one? If I can purchase locally at Napa etc..., I can fix it while I'm off for the 4th. If not, it'll have to wait a while.

Click to expand...

I don't see any connection to this discussion and a need for springs inside the drum.

Since you don't see, I'll explain. I'm not a mechanic; nor do I possess any great amount of tractor knowledge. I started this thread based on the premise that the parking brake springs functioned in some capacity as brake return springs; and that the right hand spring was holding my brake pedal down. Since you have dispelled that myth, the only other springs that I know of that will return the brake pedal to operating height are the internal brake return springs, or external brake return springs. Since I can find no evidence of any other external springs, I concluded (maybe incorrectly) that the internal springs were at fault for my brake pedal staying in the down position. Since there are no farm stores within a couple hours of me, I asked if the spring might be available at an auto parts store such as Napa (which carries a good number of agricultural parts).

I inherited this tractor a few years ago, and it is in "works OK, but not great" condition. I'm doing what I can to remedy some of the problems as I have time and funds, but my lack of expertise necessitates the use of forums like this to find information that I can't find in the service manual. If someone can be of service in helping me, I would be grateful. If you can't, then never mind. No need to reply. I'll seek help elsewhere.

Keith Williams · Jul 5, 2017

mr_flintstone,
Have you followed the procedure in your owner's manual to adjust the brake peddles?

mr_flintstone · Jul 5, 2017

(quoted from post at 10:47:05 07/05/17) mr_flintstone,
Have you followed the procedure in your owner's manual to adjust the brake peddles?

Thanks, I have adjusted the brakes as per the manual, and I have good brakes on both sides. I went out today and removed the right side parking brake rod, and checked the height of each brake pedal without it. The left side brake pedal has about 1 inch free travel before the brakes hit the drum. The right side brake has no free travel, but the height at which the brakes hit the drum is the same as the left. If I lift slightly on the right side brake pedal, I can feel some lift up to the point where the left pedal sits, but when I let go, it moves back to the point where there is no free pedal. It's almost like there is lift there, but the weight of the longer right side pedal is too much and weighs the pedal down.

Anybody have other ideas?

showcrop · Jul 5, 2017

(quoted from post at 10:09:07 07/05/17)

(quoted from post at 09:24:26 07/05/17)

(quoted from post at 08:31:57 07/05/17)
OK, so I obviously need a brake return spring that fits inside the drum. Does anyone know if these (or a suitable replacement) can be purchased at auto parts stores, or will I have to order one? If I can purchase locally at Napa etc..., I can fix it while I'm off for the 4th. If not, it'll have to wait a while.

Click to expand...

I don't see any connection to this discussion and a need for springs inside the drum.

Click to expand...

Since you don't see, I'll explain. I'm not a mechanic; nor do I possess any great amount of tractor knowledge. I started this thread based on the premise that the parking brake springs functioned in some capacity as brake return springs; and that the right hand spring was holding my brake pedal down. Since you have dispelled that myth, the only other springs that I know of that will return the brake pedal to operating height are the internal brake return springs, or external brake return springs. Since I can find no evidence of any other external springs, I concluded (maybe incorrectly) that the internal springs were at fault for my brake pedal staying in the down position. Since there are no farm stores within a couple hours of me, I asked if the spring might be available at an auto parts store such as Napa (which carries a good number of agricultural parts).

I inherited this tractor a few years ago, and it is in "works OK, but not great" condition. I'm doing what I can to remedy some of the problems as I have time and funds, but my lack of expertise necessitates the use of forums like this to find information that I can't find in the service manual. If someone can be of service in helping me, I would be grateful. If you can't, then never mind. No need to reply. I'll seek help elsewhere.

OK mr flintstone I think that I am with you now. You are correct that the pedal is supposed to be returned by the brake shoe springs. On the end of each of the shafts that go in through the rear of each backing plate is what, if I remember correctly, they call the wedge which spreads the shoes apart as it rotates from foot pressure. Spring tension should pull the shoes back together and bring the pedal back up. If you in turn lift each pedal up then drop it, if it is free, then perhaps some new springs would fix the problem. If they don't move readily the problem could be lack of lubrication where the shafts pass through various places that you will find underneath. This is a far more likely condition, and far easier to remedy. Brake return springs can be a major adventure.

john in la · Jul 5, 2017

I can now see what you were thinking even if it was wrong.
You felt that since you pressed on the right brake; and this in turn pulls the parking brake rod down; that the parking brake spring was holding the pedal down.
That is very unlikely as this spring has very little tension.

On the right side there are 4 springs inside the drum that makes the brakes return.
If you can feel slop by picking up on the pedal you may have a broken or weak spring in there.
Only way to tell for sure is to pull the wheel off.

The springs would need to be bought for your tractor.
You can not go to some auto parts store and get a looks close enough to work spring.
The tension; length; diameter all come into play.

Now with that said if the brakes are not dragging to where you can feel they are not released I sure as heck would not be man handling that big tire off just for a look see.

mr_flintstone · Jul 5, 2017

I had partially come to a similar conclusion. After digging around various forums today, I read about an old style 2000 that had a similar problem. Their solution was to take the wheel and drum off, clean all of the rust/crud out of the assembly, and grease the moving parts. My tractor doesn't have adjuster hole covers, and it's what we refer to as an outside tractor. It's not not had an inside home for the last 30 years that I know of, so there's more than a good chance that the insides of the drums are gummed up.

That being said, the brakes aren't dragging (at least I don't hear anything), so I may try fabricate some type of external helper spring to pull the pedal back up, and wait until a brake job is required to look inside.

mr_flintstone · Jul 5, 2017

(quoted from post at 17:42:03 07/05/17) I can now see what you were thinking even if it was wrong.
You felt that since you pressed on the right brake; and this in turn pulls the parking brake rod down; that the parking brake spring was holding the pedal down.
That is very unlikely as this spring has very little tension.

On the right side there are 4 springs inside the drum that makes the brakes return.
If you can feel slop by picking up on the pedal you may have a broken or weak spring in there.
Only way to tell for sure is to pull the wheel off.

The springs would need to be bought for your tractor.
You can not go to some auto parts store and get a looks close enough to work spring.
The tension; length; diameter all come into play.

Now with that said if the brakes are not dragging to where you can feel they are not released I sure as heck would not be man handling that big tire off just for a look see.

Thanks. I didn't like the idea of taking off a thousand pound wheel anyway.

showcrop · Jul 6, 2017

(quoted from post at 17:55:49 07/05/17)
I had partially come to a similar conclusion. After digging around various forums today, I read about an old style 2000 that had a similar problem. Their solution was to take the wheel and drum off, clean all of the rust/crud out of the assembly, and grease the moving parts. My tractor doesn't have adjuster hole covers, and it's what we refer to as an outside tractor. It's not not had an inside home for the last 30 years that I know of, so there's more than a good chance that the insides of the drums are gummed up.

That being said, the brakes aren't dragging (at least I don't hear anything), so I may try fabricate some type of external helper spring to pull the pedal back up, and wait until a brake job is required to look inside.

Before getting into fabricating, are you sure that the shafts are free as I suggested?

mr_flintstone · Jul 6, 2017

I'm going to check that today, but it's raining right now, and my outdoor garage is a little flooded. I'll post back when I find out.

mr_flintstone · Jul 6, 2017

OK, I went out to check a few things. First, the actuator shaft/hole is clean, and there is no drag there. Just to be sure, I shot a little brake cleaner in there, and worked the shaft up and down.

This is where I noticed something. If I lift the brake pedal up about 12-14 inches, I can feel the return spring before the brake shoes hit the drum; and it feels pretty strong. Lowering the brake pedal, I can feel a little catch where the brake shoes should start to expand, but it's fairly insignificant.

It's got me stumped.

Ford 641 parking brake

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