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1964 4000 PTO Question

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04-09-2017 20:51:12

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I've a 1964 Ford 4000 Diesel, 5-speed. Just spent several thousand dollars on it at a Ford (New Holland) dealer and I think they did something wrong but of course they don't. I don't have an identical tractor to check so I'm hoping someone here can prove or deny my concerns.

Among many other things, they were into the rear-end of it working on 3-point issues. Ever since it's come back from the shop, the PTO shaft has about 1/2 inch of play in and out and the PTO will jump out of gear at random times. If I rest my heel on the PTO lever to hold it in gear, I can feel the lever jumping constantly.
Prior to the trip to the shop, it never jumped out of gear and I don't recall the PTO shaft having any noticeable play in it. This is where I'm wishing for an identical tractor -- to see what the play is like. Maybe my memory is just bad....

Did they do something wrong, and if so, what's the most likely thing they could have done?



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04-10-2017 07:27:10

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 Re: 1964 4000 PTO Question in reply to Farrenc, 04-09-2017 20:51:12  
That's quite reassuring!
So, you're thinking the clip will still be on the shaft? If it's gone, do I need to go fishing for it so it doesn't get ground up in there?

I love this tractor, but in it's old age it's starting to get expensive! Just 2 days ago I had it on a mower giving it a good workout and it started leaking water out of the bottom of the radiator....

Thanks for the advice!


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04-10-2017 06:59:46

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 Re: 1964 4000 PTO Question in reply to Farrenc, 04-09-2017 20:51:12  
I'm not looking to blame the dealer -- worded that too strongly. They did good work on the parts they did work on. But, I was wondering if it could have been an "accidentally forgotten part during reassembly" or if it was just coincidence that I noticed the end-play after the shop work. I forgot to mention that they also replaced the clutch -- the PTO clutch would slip when under a heavy load and the main clutch was sticking/grabbing. (Totally forgot about that part of the work until I was typing this up, sorry!)


1) should I stop using the PTO until it's fixed? I assume damage is being done or could be done running it like it is.

2) is the end-play the reason it's popping the PTO out of gear?

3) How big of a job is it to get to that #5 snap ring and install one? Can it be accessed from the top or does it mean splitting the tractor?


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Ultradog MN

04-10-2017 07:19:03

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 Re: 1964 4000 PTO Question in reply to Farrenc, 04-10-2017 06:59:46  
Yes, that is why the pto is poppung out of vear.
On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being adding air to your tires and 10 being a complete overhaul of the transmission it's about a 2
Drain the oil from the rear end.
Remove 4 bolts that are in a square around the pto housing and pull the pto shaft out of the tractor.
Once out you will see what happened and how to fix it.
What usually causes this failure is a drive shaft on a mower being too long so when you raise the 3 point the geometry back there forces the pto into the tractor and knocks the circlip out of the groove it sits in.
Sometimes you have to install a new circlip as the old one can be bent or broken. New Holland might get all of a couple bucks for a new one.
Even installing a new clutch it is possible they did not touch the pto shaft.

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04-10-2017 13:06:41

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 Re: 1964 4000 PTO Question in reply to Ultradog MN, 04-10-2017 07:19:03  
New Holland could easily ask $10-15 for a $2 snap ring. I don't buy anything from NH unless I have no other choice. I'm not paying their mafia prices.

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Ultradog MN

04-10-2017 02:15:37

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 Re: 1964 4000 PTO Question in reply to Farrenc, 04-09-2017 20:51:12  
Bern is correct.
It is most likely the circlip that holds the pto shaft bearing in place.
However, you state that they "were into the rear end working on 3-point issues."
To work on 3 point issues they most likely removed the hydraulic lift cover and would have no reason to touch or test the pto.
So at this point, given the the limited info we have about what all was done I would tend to side with the dealer and not the customer.

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04-09-2017 21:06:07

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 Re: 1964 4000 PTO Question in reply to Farrenc, 04-09-2017 20:51:12  
1/2" of end play is way too much. 1/16th inch would be more normal.

I'd guess that something happened to #5 snap ring in the attached image:

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