HELP PLEASE. Ford 6640 starting issues

whitcarroll24 · Mar 12, 2017

We have had issues with our 6640 cranking. It is dragging really slow like it doesn't want to turn over. We started by replacing the battery. Next we replaced the starter and solenoid because the hot lead at the starter would get red hot while trying to crank it, so we figured the starter or solenoid were shot. We also replaced the alternator because it was bad. So now we have a new battery, starter, and alternator but it still will barely turn over and will not crank. And the hot lead on the starter almost catches fire it gets so hot, and we are not trying to crank it for more than 10 seconds or so. We can pull it off using our other tractor and it will run. If it is good and warmed up we can usually turn it off and crank it back up if we do so within a couple of minutes. But if it sits for any longer than that it will not crank and starts doing the same thing again. Any ideas? I'm about to the end of my rope with this thing.

WNY Molines · Mar 12, 2017

Battery Cables...

showcrop · Mar 12, 2017

Heat is caused by resistance which can be described as a obsacle to the flow of the current. Most likely it is oxide in between the terminal and the post.

whitcarroll24 · Mar 12, 2017

Just looking at the battery cables, they look fine. We cleaned the battery terminals to make sure there is good contact. On the starter end it's just a flat lug that is sandwiched between two nuts on a stud. That's where it gets hot, but it appears to also be making contact. I may just replace the cables to be on the safe side.

whitcarroll24 · Mar 12, 2017

Also, I forgot to mention the battery light is still on. But I had the battery tested today to make sure it wasn't faulty, it was good. Is it possible it is a grounding issue?

RickB · Mar 12, 2017

About all that's left. And they are 30 years old........

Destroked 450 · Mar 12, 2017

Years ago I built a new 400 engine for my pickup, when I tried to start it the starter would drag and the battery wouldn't last long. Hooked a jump pak to it and as it was cranking the cables started glowing red at the ends on the starter and block ground.
I replaced both cables and made sure the ends where clean, also scrapped the block and cleaned the starter stud.
It spun over like a brand new truck even without the sump pak.

Was others have said clean every connection and probably a good idea to replace the cables.

Bern · Mar 12, 2017

Does it crank fast momentarily (like for about one second) and then crank slow? If so, you have hydraulic pump(s) going into stroke and over high pressure relief.

whitcarroll24 · Mar 12, 2017

(quoted from post at 18:04:02 03/12/17) Does it crank fast momentarily (like for about one second) and then crank slow? If so, you have hydraulic pump(s) going into stroke and over high pressure relief.

No, it starts out cranking slow, almost like the engine is bogged down. I hope that maybe it is something as simple as the cables and connections, I was just concerned it might be something more serious and didn't know if anyone had a similar problem. Thank you all for your input.

RodinNS · Mar 12, 2017

If they cables have had the kind of heat you're talking about they're likely bad internally, regardless of how they look. Will it start if
you jump directly onto the starter + and ground directly to the chassis with booster cables?

Rod

whitcarroll24 · Mar 12, 2017

I don't know, I have not tried that. But I will give it a try tomorrow, thanks for the idea.

sunbeam · Mar 12, 2017

Take a test light and put one led on the battery post and the other on the starter post try to start if the light lights up there is resistance. Keep moving the leed closer to the battery when the light does not come on anymore the problem between light and no light.

whitcarroll24 · Mar 14, 2017

(quoted from post at 20:19:06 03/12/17) Take a test light and put one led on the battery post and the other on the starter post try to start if the light lights up there is resistance. Keep moving the leed closer to the battery when the light does not come on anymore the problem between light and no light.

Ok, I don't know if this makes a difference, but the lead that is overheating is the one that goes from the solenoid to the starter itself. Could this mean that the starter motor is pulling too many amps or could this still be a bad connection/resistance issue?

Destroked 450 · Mar 14, 2017

Any time you have a connection point heating up it's a bad connection.
Take the nut off and clean the side of the nut, if it has washers between the nut and cable connector clean or replace the washers, also make sure the connector is clean.

Sean in PA · Mar 14, 2017

Battery light being on doesn't mean the battery's bad, it means it's not charging, which is normal if the engine is not running. If it is still on after you get the engine running then the charging circuit isn't working properly or things aren't wired properly for the battery light to go out.

If the wire at the starter is still getting hot, check to see if the ground cable from the battery goes directly to one of the mounting bolts for the starter, and if it doesn't then change it so that it does.

Also, check to make sure that the starter has a good clean ground point where it connects to the engine block, and the area is not painted. If there is paint on the block where the starter mounts, either scrape or sand the paint off or run another ground cable from the bolt that the battery ground is connected to up to a good clean unpainted ground point on the engine.

showcrop · Mar 14, 2017

(quoted from post at 16:02:15 03/14/17) Battery light being on doesn't mean the battery's bad, it means it's not charging, which is normal if the engine is not running. If it is still on after you get the engine running then the charging circuit isn't working properly or things aren't wired properly for the battery light to go out.

If the wire at the starter is still getting hot, check to see if the ground cable from the battery goes directly to one of the mounting bolts for the starter, and if it doesn't then change it so that it does.

Also, check to make sure that the starter has a good clean ground point where it connects to the engine block, and the area is not painted. If there is paint on the block where the starter mounts, either scrape or sand the paint off or run another ground cable from the bolt that the battery ground is connected to up to a good clean unpainted ground point on the engine.

Sean, if his starter was not grounded, the positive connection at the starter could not be passing current and could not heat up as he says it is, right?

whitcarroll24 · Mar 15, 2017

(quoted from post at 16:02:15 03/14/17) Battery light being on doesn't mean the battery's bad, it means it's not charging, which is normal if the engine is not running. If it is still on after you get the engine running then the charging circuit isn't working properly or things aren't wired properly for the battery light to go out.

If the wire at the starter is still getting hot, check to see if the ground cable from the battery goes directly to one of the mounting bolts for the starter, and if it doesn't then change it so that it does.

Also, check to make sure that the starter has a good clean ground point where it connects to the engine block, and the area is not painted. If there is paint on the block where the starter mounts, either scrape or sand the paint off or run another ground cable from the bolt that the battery ground is connected to up to a good clean unpainted ground point on the engine.

Thats what I was thinking about the battery not charging. The alternator is new so I assume it's working properly. Everything is hooked up properly I believe.....The negative battery cable goes straight to a point on the chassis of the tractor about 6" from the battery and that's it, there is no ground from the battery to the starter. I took the starter and battery cables off and cleaned the connections on the cables and starter, and cleaned the ground connection on the tractor, I will clean where the starter mounts to the tractor today, I had not thought of that. If I run a ground wire directly from the battery to the starter does it matter where on the starter I connect it? There is a stud on the back of the starter motor that does not have anything on it, could I use that?
I am going to put everything back together today and keep my fingers crossed.

Sean in PA · Mar 15, 2017

(quoted from post at 20:18:26 03/14/17)
Sean, if his starter was not grounded, the positive connection at the starter could not be passing current and could not heat up as he says it is, right?

showcrop, I did not mean that it wasn't grounded at all, only that something is restricting current to the point that it can't supply enough current to start the engine such that it causes the wire to get extremely hot. Running the ground cable from the battery directly to one of the mounting bolts on the starter will bypass any current restrictions on the ground side of the starter circuit. He had already said that he had checked all of his wires and connections and everything looked good, so I was suggesting that he check other parts of the circuit that he might not have thought of.

Sean in PA · Mar 15, 2017

(quoted from post at 10:37:25 03/15/17)
Thats what I was thinking about the battery not charging. The alternator is new so I assume it's working properly. Everything is hooked up properly I believe.....The negative battery cable goes straight to a point on the chassis of the tractor about 6" from the battery and that's it, there is no ground from the battery to the starter. I took the starter and battery cables off and cleaned the connections on the cables and starter, and cleaned the ground connection on the tractor, I will clean where the starter mounts to the tractor today, I had not thought of that. If I run a ground wire directly from the battery to the starter does it matter where on the starter I connect it? There is a stud on the back of the starter motor that does not have anything on it, could I use that?
I am going to put everything back together today and keep my fingers crossed.

Since it's already got the ground cable going directly to a chassis ground, I would run another cable from that chassis ground point to one of the mounting bolts on the starter. Remove one of the bolts that hold the starter on the engine, put the lug at the end of the cable onto the shaft of the bolt and re-install the bolt.

whitcarroll24 · Mar 15, 2017

Thanks for all the help guys, this has been very helpful! After cleaning all the connections and grounding point on the chassis and where the starter mounts to the tractor, it is turning over better and cranked. I am also planning to run a ground to the starter from the main grounding connection on the tractoe like was mentioned earlier. However the battery light is still on so I assume the battery isn't being charged. Like I mentioned earlier I replaced the alternator a couple of days ago after having the old one tested and confirmed to be bad. I know the new alternator is hooked up the same as the old one. How complicated is the wiring or circuit for the alternator and where should I start for troubleshooting it not charging.

Destroked 450 · Mar 16, 2017

Does a 6640 have a battery temp sensor in the bottom of the battery box similar to what a 6610 has.
If so unplug the sensor and connect a jumper wire across the plug, then start the tractor and see if it charges.

whitcarroll24 · Mar 16, 2017

(quoted from post at 06:57:00 03/16/17)
Does a 6640 have a battery temp sensor in the bottom of the battery box similar to what a 6610 has.
If so unplug the sensor and connect a jumper wire across the plug, then start the tractor and see if it charges.

I'm not sure, but there is a plug of some sort that is coming off the positive battery terminal that is not plugged into anything, it is a couple of small wires with a plug connection on the end that's only about 3" long. Could that be it? It hasn't been plugged into anything for a while. And what could you explain a little more about jumping accross the plug, jump to what?

whitcarroll24 · Mar 16, 2017

Ok, I get what you are saying now about removing the sensor and jumping across it, but I'm not sure if it has one. I will check today. But any ideas what the other plug off the battery terminal is for?

showcrop · Mar 16, 2017

(quoted from post at 09:12:24 03/16/17)

(quoted from post at 06:57:00 03/16/17)
Does a 6640 have a battery temp sensor in the bottom of the battery box similar to what a 6610 has.
If so unplug the sensor and connect a jumper wire across the plug, then start the tractor and see if it charges.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure, but there is a plug of some sort that is coming off the positive battery terminal that is not plugged into anything, it is a couple of small wires with a plug connection on the end that's only about 3" long. Could that be it? It hasn't been plugged into anything for a while. And what could you explain a little more about jumping accross the plug, jump to what?

That plug attached to the positive would have been for a monitor or some other electrical attachment that was semi-permanently attached to the tractor.

HELP PLEASE. Ford 6640 starting issues

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