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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
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201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD

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Ultradog MN

03-09-2017 13:44:01




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Do the 10 Series engines have the extra webbing on the side of the block?
I thought they did but don't know.
Can you id one from the other by looking at it?
Did the 10 series use the 9/16" headbolts?
What other differences was there between them?
Also, when did they start putting turbos on 201s and how much hp did that add?
Thanks




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Destroked 450

03-12-2017 16:57:53




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-09-2017 13:44:01  
My 6610 is a 90 model with right side dipstick.



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Check Break

03-12-2017 14:42:27




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-09-2017 13:44:01  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Not quite. The 333 Series built that last year had a Special Equipment upgrade. When Fiat put the screws to the guys on the line they built just about every third engine with a special rod knock.



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MikeJM

03-12-2017 05:26:20




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-09-2017 13:44:01  
Bern is correct, the only way a 268/256 would live at 140ish hp is with aftercooling and a healthy cooling system, but I believe it completely within its capabilities at .5 hp per cubic in.

Buddy of mine has a 268 in a 7000 that he won't let me dyno, setup for pulling, we guesstimate 250 hp based on what gear he pulls in.



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Ultradog MN

03-12-2017 04:42:30




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-09-2017 13:44:01  
third party image

I was looking at some photos I have of a bsd engine. Noticed the dipstick is still on the left side. The bsd engine I bought a few years ago had the dipstick on the right side.
Was this just a running change or could it be a visual identifier to tell a bsd from a 10 series?
Just thinking out loud here...

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RodInNS

03-12-2017 05:50:23




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-12-2017 04:42:30  
A BSD engine is just a run of the line Basildon engine. There's nothing different or special about it. It's features will depend on what the tractor engine of the day had. The dipstick change was late 80's or early 90's. Not sure exactly...
'BSD' is simply 'Basildon Service Diesel'

Rod



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Destroked 450

03-11-2017 11:35:14




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-09-2017 13:44:01  
That is pushing a 256 pretty good but I remember going to the farm machinery show sometime in the 80's I believe , Ford had a 7610 or 7710 cab tractor there on display painted a metallic blue with duals, wheels where painted white and had the red and blue pin stripes around the outer edges, I've always thought it was the prettiest ford tractor I've even seen.

Ford was advertising the 268 engine in that tractor making reliable 140 hp.

As for the 7600 we found out later that it had competed on the pulling circuit, my brother bought it and farmed with it a few years before selling it, never had any issues with it.

With 18.4-34 radials and a full front weight rack it would pull 4-16 semi mounts in hard clay ground packing the front wheels across the field.

My cousin was having a hard time pulling 3-16 mounted with his 185 Allis in the same field.

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RodInNS

03-12-2017 11:55:29




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Destroked 450, 03-11-2017 11:35:14  
If they were talking about power measured at the flywheel, which they may have been... that is probably within the upper end of where the 268 could survive provided one kept it cool and used their head a bit about how long they sustained that level of output. There is an '88 7710 in the neighborhood here that is around that level. It's been rebuilt once... but it had a good bunch of hours on it before it melted down. He claims about 7k actually... IIRC, that one blew a hole in a piston.

Rod

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Bern

03-11-2017 12:26:03




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Destroked 450, 03-11-2017 11:35:14  
"Ford was advertising the 268 engine in that tractor making reliable 140 hp."

Was this advertising simply something someone at the show came up with? Because I really doubt that Ford Tractor said this as a blanket corporate statement. That's about 65% over the factory rating as sold.

The only way a 256 or 268 Ford can make "reliable" 140 HP is if that is as measured at the flywheel in gross form (no accessories such as fan, etc.). Even then, it would take aftercooling to make it last a decent lifespan.

A customer of ours used to use a 7610 for pumping water all day long, and it was a big load for that tractor. The tractor dynoed at 100 HP at the PTO. He had a hard time keeping pistons in it (they would crack). He finally got tired of fixing it and replaced it with a 6BTA Cummins.

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ptfarmer

03-11-2017 09:31:56




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-09-2017 13:44:01  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Yea, its not "if" its going to blow up, but when it blows up.



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Destroked 450

03-11-2017 06:51:35




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-09-2017 13:44:01  
A guy traded a 7600 in at the dealer my brother worked at, back then every tractor that was traded in was hooked to the dyno to check engine condition. When the dyno got to 150 hp the head gasket let go, they replaced the head gsk and turned the inline pump down to around 100 hp.

With a inline pump and turbo I could see a 201 making 100 hp or more, that would put a load on that SOS but with it's gear selection it would make one heck of a puller.

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Bern

03-11-2017 08:24:49




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Destroked 450, 03-11-2017 06:51:35  
If I knew that a 7600 was making a true 150HP at the PTO, I wouldn't be standing anywhere near it, I can tell you that!



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Ultradog MN

03-10-2017 15:56:36




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-09-2017 13:44:01  
Thanks again guys.
I'm still learning about these newer tractors.
I think in the future if I see one with the ribbing I'll just call it a Basildon instead of a 10 Series as I said in the post below.
As for the turbo, I'm not much interested in converting one. Just wondered about it.



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Bern

03-11-2017 06:26:18




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-10-2017 15:56:36  
I agree with Rick. All of these engines were made in the same factory. I can't say when the webbing started, but it's safe to say that both production tractors as well as BSD engines got the webbing at around the same time. The fact that many BSD engines sat in crates for a while might explain why it seems the BSD engines were later.

With regards to turbocharged 201s, some of my co-workers at the dealership I used to work for once took a 3-cylinder 4000 with a 201 and turbocharged it. They also put a Simms inline pump on it. It had a SOS transmission in it, and I guess they used to take it to tractor pulls and embarrass everyone else in that weight class with that machine.

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RodInNS

03-11-2017 09:18:53




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Bern, 03-11-2017 06:26:18  
'BSD' engines were released for sale, I believe in 1986. I'd have to check 'The Ford Tractor Story' for the reference date to be certain.. but it was around there. A BSD engine was just a line Basildon sold onto the open market to increase Ford's production from the plant, outside of tractor production.

Rod



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JoeM(GA)

03-11-2017 12:46:03




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to RodInNS, 03-11-2017 09:18:53  
I know they were already out when I started at Ford in early 1985, according to parts it was 1981

(BSD333H) FORD 3 CYL DIESEL ENGINE (1/81-12/00)
(BSD333) FORD 3 CYL ENGINE (1/81-12/00)



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Bern

03-11-2017 15:20:53




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to JoeM(GA), 03-11-2017 12:46:03  
As Rick B likes to say, don't trust the parts book for exact dates. They may have thrown that in there because 1981 is when the 10 series came out.



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RodInNS

03-11-2017 13:03:13




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to JoeM(GA), 03-11-2017 12:46:03  
I'll have to dig out the book and find the reference to see what they were actually referring to and the dates.

Rod



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RickB

03-11-2017 03:48:11




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-10-2017 15:56:36  
They are all Basildon engines, webbing or not.



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RodInNS

03-10-2017 08:21:18




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-09-2017 13:44:01  
The block webbing was applied to all (as far as I know all) Basildon engines in 1983. I'm not sure of the exact date tho. All I know for certain is that every 10 I've seen around here had a ribbed block from day one. I believe if you find a block with 9/16" head bolts that would be a FxNN from a 30 series. They're usually stepped stud blocks with the aluminum seal carrier on them too. Bern or someone might have some more specifics on that... but I think that's the rough correlation.

As far as the turbo's go.... Ford never offered an OEM turbo 201. The 192 was the only one that got that treatment at Basildon. That said, there were some modified for sale in South Africa (I think) that were decaled as a 4610T. They were used in a mine or something.... Those had a little turbo on them and made perhaps 60 horse. Those things are described a bit in 'The Ford Tractor Story'.

As far as the innards go on the 30 series turbo engine... I researched it at one time... but best I can recall the only difference was perhaps a keystone ring. IIRC, the crank, rods, pistons, etc were the same as the natural engine. They really didn't give those engines much boost anyway so it wouldn't really matter. Although I would dare say they'd probably tolerate 65-70 PTO horse fine if you could keep them cool. I've got a 233 in a 5000 with an M&W kit on it that would easily be in that range and doesn't seem to have effected it much. The 268T can easily run 100-110 PTO without falling apart.

Rod

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Destroked 450

03-10-2017 06:58:57




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-09-2017 13:44:01  
My 90 model 6610 has the extra webbing on it's 268 four cylinder engine.

We replaced a 256 turbo engine in a A62 wheel loader with a BSD 268 Turbo in the late 80's, that engine had the extra webbing.

Ford replaced the 201 with a 192 turbo engine in 95, all internal parts are different, unable to connect to parts search this morning to get details.

To turbo a older 201 and make it dependable for hard use, one could use three of the pistons and rods from a 268 turbo engine and turbo setup from a 192 turbo engine, with engine oil aiding in piston cooling would be a good idea to add the engine oil cooler also.

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Dean

03-09-2017 20:08:33




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-09-2017 13:44:01  
Neighbor had an early 90s 4630.

It was turboed and was about 60-62 PTO HP.

Dean



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ptfarmer

03-09-2017 16:05:56




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-09-2017 13:44:01  
If you don't go crazy with the boost, 5 lbs or so shouldn't hurt. My brothers 7710 (with a factory turbo) only has 10 more hp than a tractor with the same engine without the turbo. 5 psi may not sound like much, but it does make a noticeable difference in power.



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fordfarmer

03-09-2017 15:48:45




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-09-2017 13:44:01  
I don't think the series 10's had the webbing, unless some of the late ones did. AFAIK, seeing that on the block is a giveaway that it's had a BSD put in it. Like ptfarmer said, no factory turboed 201's. Would probably be pretty easy to take the parts from a 192 turbo and swap them over...but you'd be lacking the oil cooled pistons and other internal upgrades factory turbo models got. I'd guess a 15-20% bump in power, depending on how the pump is set. Keep it reasonable, and they will live... push things, and you'll soon be doing a rebuild or looking for a different engine. Local guy added a turbo to an early (233 c.i.) 5000 and pushed it to 90+ h.p. A few weeks later, it was in the shop to get a 268 BSD because of melted pistons.

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ptfarmer

03-09-2017 15:25:23




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 Re: 201 Engines. 10 Series vs BSD in reply to Ultradog MN, 03-09-2017 13:44:01  
The 1995 - 1999 US made 4630 went from the 201 to the smaller 192 engine with a turbo. That is the only engine close to the 201 that is turbocharged.

This guy put a turbo on his old 420 industrial with the 183 diesel, it came out pretty nice. http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/customization/289553-my-turbocharged-ford-420-industrial.html



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