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Order Ford 4500 Parts Online

4500 power steering pump seal

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jetlag1946

09-24-2016 07:54:37




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I have all ways suspected I have a a leak of fluid into the crankcase from the injector pump , power steering pump or both . I never have to add oil and it stays full . I know an engine that old with some blue smoke has to burn some oil . Ok ,so I have the injector pump resealed and running . I have an oil filter conversion kit on the way . I would like to reseal the at least the front shaft seal on the steering pump before I install the filter kit and change the oil . I was wondering if the pump gear comes off the pump easily after the bold is removed or if a puller is needed ? Also any pointers on doing this repair would be appreciated , like things I need to be aware of that might cause problems if not properly done.

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Destroked 450

09-26-2016 10:46:36




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to jetlag1946, 09-24-2016 07:54:37  
It's not easy getting the old seals out with the shaft in place, unbolt the pump and remove the front section, replace the seals and bolt it back together.

If you've replaced orings recently they can be reused.



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billyar

09-25-2016 17:53:46




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to jetlag1946, 09-24-2016 07:54:37  
There's 2 seals behind the one turned out and one turned in a pinch you both in toward the pump. bushing is probably worn,held in with a snap ring. Poor folks got poor ways Rod.



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jetlag1946

09-26-2016 07:33:55




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to billyar, 09-25-2016 17:53:46  
Thanks billyar ,the poor boy approach is something I like, I use the rigged approach often . I think my pump might be in pretty good shape . After I got it out , I don't see any sign of the yellow color hydro oil on the end of pump or on the gears or in the timing cover . I don't know if this is a good test but I can't feel any loose play at all in any direction on the pump shaft . The engine oil is black and thin , so I am hoping I got the problem solved when resealed the injector last week , but I will still put the new front seal in the steering pump when it arrives . Can you get that seal in with out taking the pump apart ? I hate to open the pump up and reseal if it is not leaking .

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Destroked 450

09-25-2016 11:59:48




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to jetlag1946, 09-24-2016 07:54:37  
I have a 69 model 4500 with square pump that gets it's oil from the hyd tank made into the front grill shell. That tank holds around 7 gallons and the two loader frames hold about 3 gallons each with total system capacity being around 13 gallons.

Ford used this only on 4500 models from 65-10/70 before changing to the round tank-pump combo unit used on all later model tractors.

Front axle and steering (section 03E05) in parts search has a picture of this system at the bottom of the page
Although it's not 35 gallons it's to much oil to determine if the pumps leaking.

My rule of thumb is if my engine stops using oil or starts gaining oil I look at the oils consistency.

If it's getting thin and watery diesel is getting into the oil.

If it's not getting thin the power steering pump is leaking.

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jetlag1946

09-26-2016 07:12:52




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to Destroked 450, 09-25-2016 11:59:48  
Thanks destroked ,that's some good info . The 35 gal post might have been a backhoe like mine , it has 7 more cylinders to fill , 4 0f which are very large .



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jetlag1946

09-25-2016 10:37:58




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to jetlag1946, 09-24-2016 07:54:37  
[quote="CVPost-jaybird-oh"](quoted from post at 20:52:28 09/24/16) I just finished putting a power steering pump seal in my 3500 forklift pump with a small reservoir.The reservoir fluid was going down and the crankcase oil was going up. I also have a 4500 tlb that the pump is supplied from the loader-backhoe reservoir that would be hard to detect oil loss from. Just have to keep an eye on the engine oil level. Gear came off easily without a puller on this one.[/quote] Thanks for reply jaybird , I want to do the seal so not have to worry about it . I have a feeling my tractor will start to use some oil and not stay full all the time .

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jetlag1946

09-25-2016 10:29:18




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to jetlag1946, 09-24-2016 07:54:37  
[quote="CVPost-fordfarmer"](quoted from post at 13:31:03 09/24/16) Nope - p/s has it's own reservoir. Maybe a quart.[/quote] Thanks fordfarmer , The 65 through 68 4500 had the square pump with out its own reservoir . They also used that in just a few 70 models . the rest have the round pump with self contained reserve . I had to research this very much to be sure I was ordering the correct seal kit . It was a certain month in 68 it changed so you could have either one that year .

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jetlag1946

09-25-2016 10:18:43




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to jetlag1946, 09-24-2016 07:54:37  
[quote="CVPost-JF in MI"](quoted from post at 13:02:14 09/24/16) If his pump is like mine it feeds off the main hydraulic reservoir which holds something nuts like 35 gallons. Pretty hard to judge a leak from fluid loss.[/quote] Thanks very much , people should know what they are talking about before jumping on people with foul language .



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RodInNS

09-25-2016 11:23:48




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to jetlag1946, 09-25-2016 10:18:43  
Indeed...
Like I said, if you want to go rooting for problems, that's your prerogative. I wasn't aware that there was ever a steering setup that used the main reservoir. Anything I've seen, and that's quite a few... have all had an integral reservoir or the engine mounted tank. Regardless, if you have a bad pump seal with a large supply of oil behind it... you'd have oil running out the dipstick on the engine. I certainly would not assume that the pump seal is bad simply on the basis of the engine not using oil. You'd also have very poor steering performance if the pump seal is bad. They'll dump their oil into the engine in a matter of minutes once they fail.
I'd also probably convert it to an integral reservoir pump if the pump is bad... It's not quite as nice to steer but it's a whole lot cheaper.

Rod

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jetlag1946

09-26-2016 07:44:46




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to RodInNS, 09-25-2016 11:23:48  
I don't consider a process of elimination of 2 most probable causes of a problem as "rooting for problems " . I have already resealed the injector and I had to remove the steering pump to look for signs of a leak in the front . Call it what you want ,the new seal is going in .



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RodInNS

09-26-2016 14:10:02




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to jetlag1946, 09-26-2016 07:44:46  
What problem? The only thing I see is that you've determined that the engine is not losing oil... so something must be leaking into the engine to make up for what you assume it's losing. There's all kinds of those tractors around that don't burn a drop of oil. I've got a 4000 with who knows how many hours on the clock (probably 9000) that will have the same level on the stick after 300 hours as it had when it was changed. Unless you previously had a problem with oil consumption that has seemingly ceased, or other information aside from what you provided in this thread... then I really don't see any issue.... A whisper of blue smoke, particularly when the engine is cold... IS very common. It may even be oil smoke, but for all they lose on the valve guides to create that smoke... it never amounts to a hill of beans on the stick.

Rod

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jetlag1946

09-28-2016 17:37:27




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to RodInNS, 09-26-2016 14:10:02  
sir , if you read the posts you will see the "problem" is my engine has had blue smoke coming from the exhaust for the last 5 or 6 years . Between oil changes it never uses any oil and gradually gets up above the full mark . The oil is thin and black . I believe I fixed the problem when I resealed the injector pump but while the tractor is down I am going to put the seal in steering pump also . You have to understand this is an antique tractor forum and people enjoy working on the tractors. It is not a contractors heavy equipment site where people are trying to get the most " bang for the buck " out of the old tractors until they fall apart .

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jetlag1946

09-25-2016 10:15:24




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to jetlag1946, 09-24-2016 07:54:37  
Read my original post again , I have reason to believe hydro oil is leaking into the crankcase form the power steering . There is no reservoir you can look in on the pump to see if fluid is missing. This is the old pump that feeds off the main hydraulic supply .



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RodInNS

09-24-2016 12:29:58




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to jetlag1946, 09-24-2016 07:54:37  
I've got to ask why you're going looking for headaches when you don't have one? If it's not losing P/S oil, you DON'T have a problem. Leave the damn thing alone.
If you are losing oil... then yes, pull the pump off, remove the drive gear not and pull the gear. Sometimes they will pop off the taper easily. Other times they have to be pulled with a small gear puller... and sometimes you can save a pump with new seals and more often I find they're pure garbage...... and you need a pump.

Rod

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JF in MI

09-24-2016 13:02:14




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to RodInNS, 09-24-2016 12:29:58  
If his pump is like mine it feeds off the main hydraulic reservoir which holds something nuts like 35 gallons. Pretty hard to judge a leak from fluid loss.



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RodInNS

09-24-2016 15:20:26




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to JF in MI, 09-24-2016 13:02:14  
If that is the case you have a valid point... but I can't say I've ever seen a P/S setup like that prior to the 40 series tractors.

Rod



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fordfarmer

09-24-2016 13:31:03




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to JF in MI, 09-24-2016 13:02:14  
Nope - p/s has it's own reservoir. Maybe a quart.



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JF in MI

09-24-2016 13:49:04




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to fordfarmer, 09-24-2016 13:31:03  
Yup, we have one like that on our 5000 and yes its real easy to tell if its leaking.



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jetlag1946

09-24-2016 10:48:12




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to jetlag1946, 09-24-2016 07:54:37  
Thanks jf , I have the 65/68 square pump . I don't have it out yet . I don't know if the newer round pump has the same shaft. I know on a lawn mower flywheel with taper shaft and key way , they come off easy if you put a metal wedge tight between the flywheel and housing and strike the shaft end with a brass hammer or a regular hammer with a piece of aluminum against the shaft end . But I do have a puller also if it will fit .

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jetlag1946

09-24-2016 10:34:52




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to jetlag1946, 09-24-2016 07:54:37  
Thanks fordfarmer , I think I will go ahead and see if I can find the bearing . I got the seal kit ordered today .



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fordfarmer

09-24-2016 12:51:22




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to jetlag1946, 09-24-2016 10:34:52  
If the bearings are worn, the gears have likely cut into the body of the pump... which means a new pump. I don't even know if the bearings (bushings? ) are available. If oil hss been kept in the pump, it's probably ok... if it's been run dry, you're probably looking at a new pump.



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JF in MI

09-24-2016 09:04:46




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to jetlag1946, 09-24-2016 07:54:37  
The shaft where the gear goes on is a taper fit that also has a keyway. Puller needed I presume.



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jetlag1946

09-24-2016 07:58:15




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to jetlag1946, 09-24-2016 07:54:37  
sorry , I had misspelled word I meant " after the bolt is removed " not after the "bold" is removed



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fordfarmer

09-24-2016 08:09:55




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to jetlag1946, 09-24-2016 07:58:15  
I've redone one... need to do another this this winter. Wasn't bad at all. Didn't need a puller for the one I did. Just be aware that if the bearings are worn, the new seal won't last long.



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jaybird-oh

09-24-2016 20:52:28




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 Re: 4500 power steering pump seal in reply to fordfarmer, 09-24-2016 08:09:55  
I just finished putting a power steering pump seal in my 3500 forklift pump with a small reservoir.The reservoir fluid was going down and the crankcase oil was going up. I also have a 4500 tlb that the pump is supplied from the loader-backhoe reservoir that would be hard to detect oil loss from. Just have to keep an eye on the engine oil level. Gear came off easily without a puller on this one.



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