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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
Order Ford 800 Parts Online

Ford 800 Insert for Exhaust Valve Seat Came Loose

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Brett24

05-19-2016 09:28:50




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My Ford 800 (w/ 172 engine) was running fine when I parked it. Less than a week later, when I started it, it was missing on one cylinder. After eliminating spark, etc., as the cause, I checked compression, and found cylinder 3 to have no compression.

I blew air into the spark plug hole while rotating the engine by hand, and found air was always coming out of the exhaust.

I pulled the manifold and could see that the exhaust-valve-seat insert had come loose and was crooked, and preventing the valve from closing (and, of course, from seating).

I pulled the head and confirmed the issue.
The head is not the original. It was replaced about 15 years ago.

I do not have experience with these inserts, and cannot see why it would have come out. I also am uncertain about what to do to correct this. Do I just get a new insert, place it in, and hope it stays? Why would the insert come loose?

I'll attach a couple of pictures. One of the pictures shows the top of the piston. It obviously hit the insert when the insert came loose. The score in the piston is not huge, but will that create a problem? The other image shows some denting of the head material from when the piston collided with the insert. The valve appears to be undamaged and straight.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. My hay is almost ready to cut and bale, and this is my only tractor, so I really need to get it working again.

As a side note, all of the machine shops that used to be in my area have closed. If I can get away with doing this repair without driving to a distant machine shop, that would be preferred.

Thanks.

Brett

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Jeepjeepster

06-22-2016 09:08:09




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 Re: Ford 800 Insert for Exhaust Valve Seat Came Loose in reply to Brett24, 05-19-2016 09:28:50  
Makes you wonder how some places are even in business.



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Destroked 450

06-21-2016 17:20:04




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 Re: Update Re: Ford 800 Insert for Exhaust Valve Seat Came L in reply to Brett24, 05-19-2016 09:28:50  
Glad you got it back together without costing a arm and leg.



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Brett24

06-21-2016 11:24:55




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 Update Re: Ford 800 Insert for Exhaust Valve Seat Came Loose in reply to Brett24, 05-19-2016 09:28:50  
I found a machine shop with really friendly people. They did the work for under $100. The head was without cracks. The piston, in their opinion, was fine to run as it is. The tractor is running on all four cylinders again, and seems to be running really well.



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Destroked 450

05-20-2016 19:50:35




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 Re: Ford 800 Insert for Exhaust Valve Seat Came Loose in reply to Brett24, 05-19-2016 09:28:50  
Look for another machine shop, that guy is talking out of his head. I doubt that the head is cracked looking at the picture and would have no problem reusing the piston. Instulling a new valve set is a job that needs to be done at a machine shop or well equipped auto repair shop. Other than replacing the seat the possibility of the valve being bent is all I'd be concerned about.

Haven't had a valve seat replaced in a while but I'd think it wouldn't cost more than $100 for one seat.

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Brett24

05-20-2016 16:52:40




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 Re: Ford 800 Insert for Exhaust Valve Seat Came Loose in reply to Brett24, 05-19-2016 09:28:50  
This forum will not let me edit my post. When I said "...he said the block was certainly cracked", I meant to say "head", not "block".



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Brett24

05-20-2016 16:36:56




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 Re: Ford 800 Insert for Exhaust Valve Seat Came Loose in reply to Brett24, 05-19-2016 09:28:50  
Thanks guys. I made the drive to a machine shop today. It reminded me of why I like to do things for myself. At the machine shop I was greeted with "You want somethin'?" (said in a manner that made it clear the gentlemen was quite put out by my arrival at his place of business).
With a continuation of his surly tone, he said the block was certainly cracked (this was before he looked at it), but he'd "mag" it first. That would be $65. I asked what the repair would cost if, by chance, the block was not cracked, and all that was needed was a new insert installed. He said "you're lookin' at $500 - $600"

I decided not to use his services. There is a different machine shop I'll check next week (couldn't get to it in time today, and they are closed over the weekend).

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Brian J in MN

05-19-2016 17:48:17




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 Re: Ford 800 Insert for Exhaust Valve Seat Came Loose in reply to Brett24, 05-19-2016 09:28:50  
You need to have about 0.010 interference fit on the seat insert as they are usually different material than the head(cast iron) and expand at different rates. The valve seats usually come in .005 to .015 diameter differences and the head gets machined to fit the insert correctly. As for the cause of this one coming out it could be any number of things. Have a reputable engine/head shop check everything for cracks as this is the biggest reason for inserts coming loose.

My 2 cents,

Brian

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El Hombre

05-19-2016 10:00:29




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 Re: Ford 800 Insert for Exhaust Valve Seat Came Loose in reply to Brett24, 05-19-2016 09:28:50  
You need to have about .002-3" crush on the insert so it won't pop out when the head heats up and expands. A machine shop will measure the existing insert and counter bore and install a slightly bigger insert that will stay where it belongs. This requires dedicated tooling, so unless you're tooled up like a machine shop, you won't be able to DIY. The dings in the head probably won't hurt anything, take a stone or file and remove any sharp edges.

The piston is a different issue, it might be OK. But I would measure how deep the dimple is, and how thick the piston crown is. If getting the oil pan off isn't a major campaign, pull the piston and rod and take it to the machine shop. Have them crack test it, Zyglo, to see if it's cracked; especially the under side of the dimple. Good luck.

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nlastovi

05-19-2016 09:57:17




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 Re: Ford 800 Insert for Exhaust Valve Seat Came Loose in reply to Brett24, 05-19-2016 09:28:50  
I would expect that you'll probably want to have a machine shop create a new valve seat insert slightly larger enough on the OD to be the correct interference fit (off the top of my head I don't know how tight would be spec but probably around .003 to .005). Then it'll need to be cut/ground and fit to the valve. May as well, if it has been a while, have them do an inspection of the rest and consider a valve job as needed (depending on the size of the margin and the condition of the seats and valves) while you have the head off.

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Brett24

05-19-2016 09:31:25




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 Re: Ford 800 Insert for Exhaust Valve Seat Came Loose in reply to Brett24, 05-19-2016 09:28:50  
The images did not upload the first time. I'm trying again.
third party image third party image



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