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ford 4000 alternator light stays on.

J

jwjsr

Member
71 ford 3 cyl diesel. instrument cluster the alternator light is always on even though alt is charging and i can't recall if it has always been on the 10 yrs i have owned the tractor.
I'm hoping it is a one wire hookup but from where ? to where?, or do u lose the alt light like you do your tach when you convert to 12v.
 
A 71 4000 doesn't need to be converted to 12V, it left the factory that way. If it has an alternator conversion, who ever did it may have used a kit with a tach drive or not, or used an installation preserving the indicator lamp function or not. It's all left up to the talents and finances of the perpetrator.
 
(quoted from post at 13:21:23 03/28/14) That's good, somehow I got the impression all 65 to 75's had factory gens.
Click to expand...

Al 65 to 75's did have factory generators, but they were all 12 volt generators, and the proofmeter (tach) cable was driven by a gear at the rear of the 12 volt generator.

Prior to 1965, only the diesels were 12 volt and the gassers were all 6 volt, but all of them, diesels and gassers also had generators, but the proofmeter cables on all of the pre-1965 models were driven by a gear at the rear of the hydraulic pump.

It wasn't until the x600 series came out in 1975 (2600/3600/4600/5600) that they switched to installing alternators at the factory. They also switched to a counter-clockwise tach with the cable being driven off of the oil pump with a fitting on the side of the block to connect the cable.
 
(quoted from post at 11:27:29 03/28/14)
(quoted from post at 13:21:23 03/28/14) That's good, somehow I got the impression all 65 to 75's had factory gens.
Click to expand...

Al 65 to 75's did have factory generators, but they were all 12 volt generators, and the proofmeter (tach) cable was driven by a gear at the rear of the 12 volt generator.

Prior to 1965, only the diesels were 12 volt and the gassers were all 6 volt, but all of them, diesels and gassers also had generators, but the proofmeter cables on all of the pre-1965 models were driven by a gear at the rear of the hydraulic pump.

It wasn't until the x600 series came out in 1975
(2600/3600/4600/5600) that they switched to installing alternators at the factory. They also switched to a counter-clockwise tach with the cable being driven off of the oil pump with a fitting on the side of the block to connect the cable.
Click to expand...

So, maybe i can put my brand new service manual to use figuring out why my Alt light stays on. But first i will recheck myself, checked it a week ago with voltmeter, but that was before i even noticed the alt light staying on all the time and realizing I can't say whether it has been on for the whole 10 years i have owned the tractor, it could have quit charging after I checked it.
 
(quoted from post at 14:58:56 03/28/14)
(quoted from post at 11:27:29 03/28/14)
(quoted from post at 13:21:23 03/28/14) That's good, somehow I got the impression all 65 to 75's had factory gens.
Click to expand...

Al 65 to 75's did have factory generators, but they were all 12 volt generators, and the proofmeter (tach) cable was driven by a gear at the rear of the 12 volt generator.

Prior to 1965, only the diesels were 12 volt and the gassers were all 6 volt, but all of them, diesels and gassers also had generators, but the proofmeter cables on all of the pre-1965 models were driven by a gear at the rear of the hydraulic pump.

It wasn't until the x600 series came out in 1975
(2600/3600/4600/5600) that they switched to installing alternators at the factory. They also switched to a counter-clockwise tach with the cable being driven off of the oil pump with a fitting on the side of the block to connect the cable.
Click to expand...

So, maybe i can put my brand new service manual to use figuring out why my Alt light stays on. But first i will recheck myself, checked it a week ago with voltmeter, but that was before i even noticed the alt light staying on all the time and realizing I can't say whether it has been on for the whole 10 years i have owned the tractor, it could have quit charging after I checked it.
Click to expand...
aybe the first thing you could do is determine whether you have an alt or gen hanging off side of your engine
 
(quoted from post at 16:49:29 03/28/14) 7000 in 71

Alternator Assy., 55 Amp, Start Year: 01-JAN-71

c7nn10300b
Click to expand...
are u saying if the light is on the alt is proally bad. I rechecked the battery with voltmeter and it is reading 12V while running, i think that means it is not charging as i should be getting around 13.5V. i am trying to find the wire from the alt that charges the battery, there is only one extra wire going to the batt and it comes straight from the headlight switch. I am thinking the wire I am looking for is on the starter solenoid.
The other day i noticed the solenoid was producing a nice spark every time I engaged it, while trying to find a bad connection i shorted something together with my wrench. Could that short i created have found its way back to alt and blown a diode or something?
 
(quoted from post at 06:38:16 03/30/14) How many wires are coming off of the alternator, and where do they go?
Click to expand...
I forgot to press submit to send the below info earlier, went to play golf with my son so i couldn't work on the tractor.
Its a one wire and will trace it further later, i have traced it to a bundle going over the gas tank but when i pulled the gauge cluster i got interested in the fuel sending unit and the cluster unit and forgot to trace the alt wire further. Is the voltage "smoother" still available? mine has no insides. the fuel sender resistor thingy looks to be history. I don't think i'll pay more than $20 to have a working fuel gauge.
 
Do you mean the voltage stabilizer on the back of the instrument cluster? It doesn't smooth the voltage, in fact it does the opposite. It basically lowers the voltage to the gauges by switching its output voltage on and off repeatedly so that the average output is somewhere in the 5 to 6 volt range. And yes, it appears that they are still available. Part number C7NN10N507A should be available at any New Holland dealer, but kind of pricey at about half what a full replacement instrument cluster goes for. Third party aftermarket units are much less.
 

yes "stabilizer" is the word. i'm gonna go take a picture of the cluster right now, be right back
 
Below are pics of cluster and ignition.
The voltage stabilizer looks like an empty metal pie pan, and is history unless the workings are behind the empty pie pan, I wonder if the black glob is what is left of a fuse holder. I think I broke the black wire coming from behind the stabilizer when I pulled the cluster.
I assume one of the wires on the ignition comes from the alt.
The alt and oil pressure lights work and I have a stand alone temp gauge.
Maybe I will just get stand alone fuel gauge and sender or keep using the stick
mvphoto5550.jpg


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mvphoto5553.jpg
 
If I coul find a new resistor this fuel sender would work again but that might require voltage stabilizer or cluster.
mvphoto5557.jpg


mvphoto5558.jpg


mvphoto5559.jpg
 
need to know what alt you have.

sparks mean bad connections.

if you shorted the alt output while running it could damage it.
 
(quoted from post at 06:04:00 04/01/14) need to know what alt you have.

sparks mean bad connections.

if you shorted the alt output while running it could damage it.
Click to expand...

mvphoto5614.jpg

If this alt has a name I would have to unbolt it to find it.
 
(quoted from post at 08:57:33 04/01/14)
(quoted from post at 06:04:00 04/01/14) need to know what alt you have.

sparks mean bad connections.

if you shorted the alt output while running it could damage it.
Click to expand...

mvphoto5614.jpg

If this alt has a name I would have to unbolt it to find it.
Click to expand...


That big red wire should run down to the start selinoid and fasten to the battery side on the big post so that is charges the battery.

With only one wire hooked up, you will have to rev the engine up really high each time to start it, to get the alternator to charge. Once you rev it up, it should charge... however the generator light is not wire up so it will stay on.. You could run a second wire to the generator light so that will ... 1. show it charging. 2. keep you from having to rev it up each time you start it to get the alt energized, and then run the 3rd wire as a voltage sense wire back to the selonoid also to keep that point as the voltage sense point of 14 volts...

Some alternators require the 3rd wire or voltage sense wire hooked up to work correctly.

(assuming that alternator has to two small spade lug terminals on it, near the big wire.)
 
(quoted from post at 09:57:33 04/01/14)
(quoted from post at 06:04:00 04/01/14) need to know what alt you have.

sparks mean bad connections.

if you shorted the alt output while running it could damage it.
Click to expand...

mvphoto5614.jpg

If this alt has a name I would have to unbolt it to find it.
Click to expand...
s the old regulator, that was for the generator, still on the tractor & connected to the tractor wiring harness?
 
I have continuity between the alt post and pos term of battery. For the heck of it I checked cont between the alt post and the alt housing, it shows continuity.
I put a jumper between alt post and pos on bat and started tract at high rpm, voltage does not go up/change from voltage not running.
I just notice there is another unused post on the alt under the black rubber cover u can see in pic
mvphoto5615.jpg
 
the rectangular box on the engine side of the fast tank is still there with wires hooked up to it but I haven't don't quite enough tracing to figure out if it is still in play at all.
I still haven't traced the alt wire to know whether it goes directly to the starter solenoid or goes to the ignition or unused button under the ignition switch first
 
Its sad have had the tractor for 10 years and can't say whether the alt light has always been on or not!! :oops:
 
(quoted from post at 10:42:39 04/01/14) the rectangular box on the engine side of the fast tank is still there with wires hooked up to it but I haven't don't quite enough tracing to figure out if it is still in play at all.
I still haven't traced the alt wire to know whether it goes directly to the starter solenoid or goes to the ignition or unused button under the ignition switch first
Click to expand...
nplug the connector on your old regulator box & your idiot light will probably go out.
 
ok, if it goes out that means it has been on for 10 years, unless i find wires under dash telling me different.
 
(quoted from post at 08:14:55 04/01/14)
(quoted from post at 10:42:39 04/01/14) the rectangular box on the engine side of the fast tank is still there with wires hooked up to it but I haven't don't quite enough tracing to figure out if it is still in play at all.
I still haven't traced the alt wire to know whether it goes directly to the starter solenoid or goes to the ignition or unused button under the ignition switch first
Click to expand...
nplug the connector on your old regulator box & your idiot light will probably go out.
Click to expand...
Yes it went out when I uplugged either the grnd or another one of the wires hooked to reg.
 
(quoted from post at 06:04:00 04/01/14) need to know what alt you have.

sparks mean bad connections.

if you shorted the alt output while running it could damage it.
Click to expand...

Alt is delco 7127
 
if I was you.. i'd use that idot lamp with your alt and keep using it like a idiot lamp. key hot to one side of lamp. other side of lamp to #1 spade on alt. #2 spade on alt to charge stud. key on, engine off = lamp on, after starting and coming up over about 400ish rpm.. lamp should dim and go off pretty quick if alt is charging and wireing is correct.
 
(quoted from post at 15:05:15 04/01/14) if I was you.. i'd use that idot lamp with your alt and keep using it like a idiot lamp. key hot to one side of lamp. other side of lamp to #1 spade on alt. #2 spade on alt to charge stud. key on, engine off = lamp on, after starting and coming up over about 400ish rpm.. lamp should dim and go off pretty quick if alt is charging and wireing is correct.
Click to expand...
This is a one wire alt, there is another unused stub under a rubber protector dome shaped, is that#2 stud on alt the main one wire connection point and #1 the unwed stud with protective rubber dome on it.
Is the "charge stud" the stud on the starter solenoid?
 
(quoted from post at 20:22:39 04/01/14)
(quoted from post at 15:05:15 04/01/14) if I was you.. i'd use that idot lamp with your alt and keep using it like a idiot lamp. key hot to one side of lamp. other side of lamp to #1 spade on alt. #2 spade on alt to charge stud. key on, engine off = lamp on, after starting and coming up over about 400ish rpm.. lamp should dim and go off pretty quick if alt is charging and wireing is correct.
Click to expand...
This is a one wire alt, there is another unused stub under a rubber protector dome shaped, is that#2 stud on alt the main one wire connection point and #1 the unwed stud with protective rubber dome on it.
Is the "charge stud" the stud on the starter solenoid?
Click to expand...
on't connect anything to the stud with dome over it. Next to that dome is a rectangular rubber/plastic block. Under that block you will find two flat spade lugs, those are #1 & #2.
 
(quoted from post at 17:38:59 04/01/14)
(quoted from post at 20:22:39 04/01/14)
(quoted from post at 15:05:15 04/01/14) if I was you.. i'd use that idot lamp with your alt and keep using it like a idiot lamp. key hot to one side of lamp. other side of lamp to #1 spade on alt. #2 spade on alt to charge stud. key on, engine off = lamp on, after starting and coming up over about 400ish rpm.. lamp should dim and go off pretty quick if alt is charging and wireing is correct.
Click to expand...
This is a one wire alt, there is another unused stub under a rubber protector dome shaped, is that#2 stud on alt the main one wire connection point and #1 the unwed stud with protective rubber dome on it.
Is the "charge stud" the stud on the starter solenoid?
Click to expand...
on't connect anything to the stud with dome over it. Next to that dome is a rectangular rubber/plastic block. Under that block you will find two flat spade lugs, those are #1 & #2.
Click to expand...
Thanks a bunch guys, I think I can wire the idiot light if one of you could point me to the charge stud.
mvphoto5633.jpg


mvphoto5634.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 01:42:40 04/02/14)
(quoted from post at 17:38:59 04/01/14)
(quoted from post at 20:22:39 04/01/14)
(quoted from post at 15:05:15 04/01/14) if I was you.. i'd use that idot lamp with your alt and keep using it like a idiot lamp. key hot to one side of lamp. other side of lamp to #1 spade on alt. #2 spade on alt to charge stud. key on, engine off = lamp on, after starting and coming up over about 400ish rpm.. lamp should dim and go off pretty quick if alt is charging and wireing is correct.
Click to expand...
This is a one wire alt, there is another unused stub under a rubber protector dome shaped, is that#2 stud on alt the main one wire connection point and #1 the unwed stud with protective rubber dome on it.
Is the "charge stud" the stud on the starter solenoid?
Click to expand...
on't connect anything to the stud with dome over it. Next to that dome is a rectangular rubber/plastic block. Under that block you will find two flat spade lugs, those are #1 & #2.
Click to expand...
Thanks a bunch guys, I think I can wire the idiot light if one of you could point me to the charge stud.
mvphoto5633.jpg


mvphoto5634.jpg
Click to expand...
harge stud is on back of alternator......labeled BATT
 
Thanks, wiring drawings are more to my liking as can't quite read wiring diagrams/schematics yet.
In gratitude for all the help, I offer y'all the following Tip for the Day-"Lazy Susan repurposed for the Lazy Man", found at habitat restore and mounted on old office chair base, looking for I better looking base.
Command Central
mvphoto5648.jpg


mvphoto5649.jpg


mvphoto5650.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 14:06:40 04/02/14) Thanks, wiring drawings are more to my liking as can't quite read wiring diagrams/schematics yet.
In gratitude for all the help, I offer y'all the following Tip for the Day-"Lazy Susan repurposed for the Lazy Man", found at habitat restore and mounted on old office chair base, looking for I better looking base.
Command Central
mvphoto5648.jpg


mvphoto5649.jpg


mvphoto5650.jpg
Click to expand...
ool! Maybe I can talk you into coming by & tidying up my place, too.
 
(quoted from post at 11:40:57 04/02/14)
(quoted from post at 14:06:40 04/02/14) Thanks, wiring drawings are more to my liking as can't quite read wiring diagrams/schematics yet.
In gratitude for all the help, I offer y'all the following Tip for the Day-"Lazy Susan repurposed for the Lazy Man", found at habitat restore and mounted on old office chair base, looking for I better looking base.
Command Central
mvphoto5648.jpg


mvphoto5649.jpg


mvphoto5650.jpg
Click to expand...
ool! Maybe I can talk you into coming by & tidying up my place, too.
Click to expand...
I thought I had the wiring figured out with your help but I still haven't figured out the idiot light.
Trying not to have to remove the dash sheet metal to run a wire for key on hot to the light I figured one of the wires to the idiot light had to be the "key on hot" wire since the light comes on when i turn the key but when i wire it as y'all showed me the idiot light does not go out, tried wiring alt one spade to one side of the idiot light, when that didn't work i wired to the other side of the idiot light, still wouldn't go out.
The new alternator is charging and i have the charge stud wired to alt 2 spade.
The cluster is pulled out laying on the hood, could it be the cluster has to be grounded?
Coud i have fried alt 1 spade when i shorted it while trying to temporally put a jumper wire on it?
With a voltmeter when I check alt one spade to ground I get 14v when engine running and 12 with engine off or key on.
 
(quoted from post at 02:00:01 04/04/14)
(quoted from post at 11:40:57 04/02/14)
(quoted from post at 14:06:40 04/02/14) Thanks, wiring drawings are more to my liking as can't quite read wiring diagrams/schematics yet.
In gratitude for all the help, I offer y'all the following Tip for the Day-"Lazy Susan repurposed for the Lazy Man", found at habitat restore and mounted on old office chair base, looking for I better looking base.
Command Central
mvphoto5648.jpg


mvphoto5649.jpg


mvphoto5650.jpg
Click to expand...
ool! Maybe I can talk you into coming by & tidying up my place, too.
Click to expand...
I thought I had the wiring figured out with your help but I still haven't figured out the idiot light.
Trying not to have to remove the dash sheet metal to run a wire for key on hot to the light I figured one of the wires to the idiot light had to be the "key on hot" wire since the light comes on when i turn the key but when i wire it as y'all showed me the idiot light does not go out, tried wiring alt one spade to one side of the idiot light, when that didn't work i wired to the other side of the idiot light, still wouldn't go out.
The new alternator is charging and i have the charge stud wired to alt 2 spade.
The cluster is pulled out laying on the hood, could it be the cluster has to be grounded?
Coud i have fried alt 1 spade when i shorted it while trying to temporally put a jumper wire on it?
With a voltmeter when I check alt one spade to ground I get 14v when engine running and 12 with engine off or key on.
Click to expand...
emove the wire marked in green color (looks to be brown with yellow stripe from diagram color code) from WL terminal on the old voltage regulator unit and connect it to the #1 spade terminal of your alternator & warning light should then work.
 
No luck, it kills the light but br/ylw does go direct to light. I could be wrong but it looks like the light is getting 12v in on both sides
 
(quoted from post at 13:07:12 04/04/14) No luck, it kills the light but br/ylw does go direct to light. I could be wrong but it looks like the light is getting 12v in on both sides
Click to expand...
hen ign on, lamp gets 12v via wires I colored RED. Lamp sees a low resistance path to ground via the path I colored green & now through the #1 spade of alternator & it should be lit. Once engine running & alternator is outputting, then the lamp sees 12v on both the green & red (thus zero across lamp filament...same 12v on both leads) and lamp extinguishes.
 
I'm liking this, I understand what you said! Alt 1 spade
Shows 12v when u put one lead on it and the other to the frame frame or negative batt post. This is with the key off. It should read 0v? I wonder if I fried alt 1 before I ever wired it by shorting the alt 1 spade to the alt case?
 
(quoted from post at 15:16:34 04/04/14) I'm liking this, I understand what you said! Alt 1 spade
Shows 12v when u put one lead on it and the other to the frame frame or negative batt post. This is with the key off. It should read 0v? I wonder if I fried alt 1 before I ever wired it by shorting the alt 1 spade to the alt case?
Click to expand...
ets a little muddy at this point, since everything I have said is for a standard Delco 10Si. However, it appears that you have a one wire alternator AND there are dozens of different one wire regulators used in those & for a fact, some have spade #1 hot all the time. No way to know what reg is inside your alt. Shorting & damage? Again, given a standard Delco 10SI, when not running, shorting spade #1 should do no harm. With whatever one wire reg???? It depends in its particular circuit. If you alt is charging OK & not draining the battery over a month of non-use, then I would probably tape up the WL (green)(brn-yel) wire & just forget the WL.
 
Yeah it least we have prob identified the issue, I feel better, I think I have what they call "closure" on this issue.
Thanks for your tutelage, I learned stuff!
 
(quoted from post at 15:50:36 04/04/14) Yeah it least we have prob identified the issue, I feel better, I think I have what they call "closure" on this issue.
Thanks for your tutelage, I learned stuff!
Click to expand...
ou are more than welcome!
 
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