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Ford Tractors Discussion Forum
Order Ford 3000 Parts Online

Ford 3000 Power steering questions

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holtenc

09-24-2013 08:23:28




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Hi all. I've got a '72 or '74 Ford 3000 3 cyl diesel. I installed the power steering kit found here on YT catalog (https://www.yesterdaystractors.com/Ford-3000_Power-Steering-Kit_S60747.html) and I've got a couple questions. I'de appreciate any input anyone can provide.
First, a pic of the overall install:

[URL=http://s308.photobucket.com/user/holt8137/media/2013-09-23143037.jpg.html]third party image[/URL]

The first issue is with the left pitman arm:

[URL=http://s308.photobucket.com/user/holt8137/media/2013-09-23143100.jpg.html]third party image[/URL]

As you can see, it's right up against the left tire and rubs. I'm not sure how to correct this as where the pitman arm connects it's keyed and I don't know if it can be clocked to a different degree. Notice the next picture of the right pitman arm. There is plenty of clearance.
[URL=http://s308.photobucket.com/user/holt8137/media/2013-09-23143118.jpg.html]third party image[/URL]

Next I have an extra part!! I have a decent guess on what to do with it but I'm not sure since where I think it goes... I just don't see how to install it.. The next two pics are of the part.

[URL=http://s308.photobucket.com/user/holt8137/media/2013-09-23173606.jpg.html]third party image[/URL]

[URL=http://s308.photobucket.com/user/holt8137/media/2013-09-23173612.jpg.html]third party image[/URL]

The installations instructions were extremely vague. They were clearly written for someone that at least SOME knowledge tractors. I'm not that someone. To make matters worse, that part isn't even shown in the single install diagram, which can bee seen at the link in the beginning of this post. On the parts list, there is only one that isn't represented in the diagram, and it's labeled "gear box arm".
So, I'm assuming it's used to extend the shaft (1) coming out of the steering gear box that the left seering arm(2) is connected to. See the next picture for references 1 and 2.
[URL=http://s308.photobucket.com/user/holt8137/media/2013-09-23143037_arrow.jpg.html]third party image[/URL]

I assume the shaft needs an extension since when I turn full left turn the steering arm will hit the PS cylinder. That extension would presumably let it clear. Just looking for confirmation of this before I go buy a puller tool to remove the steering arm.
I suppose that's it, other than some perceived performance issues I have yet to investigate fully. I'll create a new post on that if I can't figure it out

As I mentioned earlier, any input would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long post.
This post was edited by holtenc at 08:25:47 09/24/13.

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sunbeam

09-25-2013 14:59:45




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 Re: Ford 3000 Power steering questions in reply to holtenc, 09-24-2013 08:23:28  
Check to see if someone replaced or swaped the spindles right side should C5NN3105U left C5NN3106R



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dogobat

09-25-2013 07:05:07




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 Re: Ford 3000 Power steering questions in reply to holtenc, 09-24-2013 08:23:28  
well, here's some more unsolicited help - I wouldn't
put PS on a tractor w/o a loader, especially for mowing - you need the excercise, and nothing says manly like a set of Popeye arms



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sotxbill

09-25-2013 06:41:49




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 Re: Ford 3000 Power steering questions in reply to holtenc, 09-24-2013 08:23:28  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Intall a washer on each lug bolt behind the rim on the left tire. this will move it out just enough to give you the clearance you need.

Secondly the extension does not fit the steering rod to extend it a bit for centering the cyl between left and right turns?

In the earlier models of the power steering add ons, I have seen the steering cylinder reversed and the rear mount at the engine was in two models, short for 3 cyl fords and longer for 4 cyl fords. So I was wondering if you reversed the cylinder?

Good luck. Bill

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Ultradog MN

09-25-2013 04:13:58




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 Re: Ford 3000 Power steering questions in reply to holtenc, 09-24-2013 08:23:28  
I've never had one of those setups so don't know how well they work.

I thought they came from Turkey but maybe China now.

I would probably return it too but

If you were good with a torch and welder you could heat that left steering arm with a rosebud and bend it inward a little. Then then shorten the tie rod that goes across from left to right.

I'll agree with Bern that 4000s are generally better tractors with much better brakes for sure. I'll also add that they are easier to work on than a 3000.

In defense of 3000s though; a 3000 is about 9" shorter than a 4000 and you sit about 8" lower which in many cases is just the ticket.

I've also come to like live pto over independent pto as you can feather the mower into gear instead of it hammering the driveline like independent usually does. It's also nice to be able to stomp on the clutch to shut everything down instead of hitting the pto handle AND the clutch which is another thing to keep track of when you're in a hurry.

As for PS in general, I wouldn't want to go back to manual on either model.

When mowing at pto speed I can and do do most of my steering with a a spinner knob and can whip that wheel around Much faster and easier with one hand than anyone can do going hand over hand with a manual.

Edit:

After reading the whole thread I wanted to add that sometimes folks can get a little testy here. I do myself...

Generally though it's a great bunch of guys who collectively have a Vast amount of knowledge about these tractors.

Writing on a forum isn't like sitting there face to face hashing out a question or problem. Meanings get lost or misread.

So gird your loins and stay in it.

It aint like a guy's a woose because he doesn't understand something.

Wooses don't work on old tractors...
This post was edited by Ultradog MN at 04:29:30 09/25/13.

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pete black

09-24-2013 21:02:58




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 Re: Ford 3000 Power steering questions in reply to holtenc, 09-24-2013 08:23:28  
hey holtenc, good looking tractor you have there. like you i am a city boy moved to the country 15 years plus. as for power steering it is nice but for your use may not be needed that much. i have had a couple of fords, 2000 series and i found that when you have an implement mounted on the rear the added weight enabled them to be steered fairly easy. i noted no front end loader as well so that lessens the need for power steering. keeping the correct ribbed tires on the front also aids in reduce steering efforts. you stated 4 acres and renovating a small pasture therefore your work requirements will be lessened also. you do not state age or physical conditions that may require power steering. enjoy your tractor and your place and continue to post here for help or to help someone else.

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holtenc

09-24-2013 21:36:35




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 Re: Ford 3000 Power steering questions in reply to pete black, 09-24-2013 21:02:58  
Thanks Pete. You are absolutely correct. Power steering definitely not needed. I'm a young'in at 31 so no physical ailments there to keep me from giving the steering wheel a little muscle when needed. :P especially with the 5ft deck on the back, as you also mentioned.
I wanted PS for two reasons mainly; (1)to make a quick turn in a tight spot on the property (as bern mentioned the drum brakes are terrible. I'm certain the right brake does absolutely nothing), and (2)to just tinker with the machine in my spare time. I've replaced 5 or 6 parts thus far. Honestly... I only expect to shred grass with it 2 to 4 times per year. Other than that it's just a place to get my wrenches and hands dirty.

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Dean

09-25-2013 07:37:17




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 Re: Ford 3000 Power steering questions in reply to holtenc, 09-24-2013 21:36:35  
I suggest adding brakes to your project list.

The Ford tractor drum brakes will never be up to more modern wet brake standards but perform quite well for tractors of the size of your 3000 if in good condition.

You will find that the brakes will easily lock the wheels on any surface with or without ballast after proper repair.

Dean



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Bern

09-24-2013 19:03:58




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 Re: Ford 3000 Power steering questions in reply to holtenc, 09-24-2013 08:23:28  
I agree with Rod - return the kit. Near as I can tell, your front tire offsets are the same, and to have the steering arms that different from each other with regards to tire clearance would really concern me. The quality of those castings look pretty scary to me too. I'm sure they're China's finest.

My only departure from Rod's advice would be in looking for a factory PS setup. While it would be better than what you have, myself, I wouldn't own a 3000 anyway, because of that front axle and drum brakes. Find yourself a 4000 and be happy with life.

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RodInNS

09-24-2013 13:41:02




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 Re: Ford 3000 Power steering questions in reply to holtenc, 09-24-2013 08:23:28  
With all due respect... I think I'd put all that stuff back in the box and return it... then find a salvage yard that can supply the OEM power steering sector box, cylinders and drag links... and buy a pump if you need one.
The sight of that tie rod running under the tractor makes me sick. It would take about a day around here and that would be bent in a hoop.

Rod



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holtenc

09-24-2013 20:26:30




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 Re: Ford 3000 Power steering questions in reply to RodInNS, 09-24-2013 13:41:02  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Thanks for the constructive feedback guys. While I'll never do much with the tractor besides pull a 5ft Land pride deck I can see your concern with the tie rod, Rod. I think I just may look into tracking down a stock PS setup, as advised.



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soundguy

09-24-2013 10:56:35




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 Re: Ford 3000 Power steering questions in reply to holtenc, 09-24-2013 08:23:28  
1, I can assure you that lil piec eyou see is NOT to extend the sector shaft out. that sector arm is SPLINED.. how do you soppose you'd conenct a splined arm to a smooth adapter?

2, in the front tire / clearance issue.. have you considered dishing your rims?

3, how much interference is there with the steering sector arm and the hyd cyl ball end? is it real close.. like so colde that a lil smooth sided externder piece a couple inches long would make a difference?

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holtenc

09-24-2013 11:23:22




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 Re: Ford 3000 Power steering questions in reply to soundguy, 09-24-2013 10:56:35  

soundguy said: (quoted from post at 10:56:35 09/24/13) 1, I can assure you that lil piec eyou see is NOT to extend the sector shaft out. that sector arm is SPLINED.. how do you soppose you'd conenct a splined arm to a smooth adapter?

2, in the front tire / clearance issue.. have you considered dishing your rims?

3, how much interference is there with the steering sector arm and the hyd cyl ball end? is it real close.. like so colde that a lil smooth sided externder piece a couple inches long would make a difference?


Thanks for the reply.

1. Good to know. I suppose you wouldn't. Without a proper puller tool to remove the sector arm there's little way for me to know it's splined. Removing the nut from the end of the sector shaft only revealed threads and nothing more. So, having a part that is presumably labeled a "gear box arm" that has both OD threads and ID threads, and having a sector shaft coming form the steering gear box that also has threads(at the time not knowing there are also splines beneath the sector arm), it's not a far fetched conclusion of mine that that's where it may go. Especially given the fact that the sector steering arm hits the hydraulic cylinder. I assumed it was 'keyed' in some form or fashion, but couldn't investigate fully without the tool. Thanks for saving me the hassle and cost of acquiring the tool.
2. I haven't, but then again I don't really know what that means. I'll look into it.
3. that lil smooth piece is about 3 inches long, not including the OD threads. So, yes, it would make enough difference so that the sector arm can clear the hydraulic cylinder.

I'm at a loss at where that little part would go. the diameter of the threaded portion is way bigger than anything on the tractor where the steering system is concerned. the threads are at least an inch in diameter, maybe bigger.
This post was edited by holtenc at 11:27:15 09/24/13.

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soundguy

09-24-2013 11:35:39




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 Re: Ford 3000 Power steering questions in reply to holtenc, 09-24-2013 11:23:22  
you may need some help on this.. you are apparently dealing with a tractor.. or machinery for your first time.

i can assure you.. when you pull that sector arm nut off.. you can see splines. I've rebuilt a couple dozen steering boxes like that. as for the arm being keyed. well.. if it was keyed.. where would you see the keyslot on that extender piece? faulty logic.

dishing the rim referes to flipping it so that the center 'dish' faces another direction. many rims are what are called dished or offset. IE.. depending on how you bolt them on.. the move the tire colser or farter away from the spindle.

you are guessing way too much. an inc? more than an inch? no room to guess here.

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holtenc

09-24-2013 12:02:00




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 Re: Ford 3000 Power steering questions in reply to soundguy, 09-24-2013 11:35:39  
I do need help. Why else do you think I'm here looking for advice and input? From the get go in the first post I clearly stated that I'm not experienced with tractors. I'm also not a mechanic. I'm an electronics engineer and gadget junky. I'm a city boy that recently moved on to 4 acres and thought it would be fun to buy an old tractor that I can wrench on in my spare time and also have a machine to shred a little pasture. So, CLEARLY I'm out of my depth and came here seeking advice from what I assumed were like-minded individuals in the sense that we like working with our hands and tinkering around with machines. But all i get form you is superiority and condescending remarks. If you don't know what the 'lil part' is, a simple "Sorry man, not sure what that is" would suffice just fine.
When I get home Friday I'll be sure to snap a picture of the sector shaft with no nut on it, that only shows threads and no splines. Then you can file that away along with your experience with a couple dozen steering box rebuilds.
Thanks for the tip on dishing the rim.
Now, if anyone else has some HELPFUL thoughts on where my extra part may go... I'd be very grateful.

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soundguy

09-24-2013 15:25:13




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 Re: Ford 3000 Power steering questions in reply to holtenc, 09-24-2013 12:02:00  
third party image

third party image

I happen to be an engineer as well.

the sector arm is for sure splined.. the splines are visible as their dimensions are larger than the diameter of the threaded shank the nut is on... think back to your physics classes. there is no way the splines are a smaller diameter than the threaded shank.. otherwise the arm wouln not be able to be removed!..

I'll file your ip and name away in my bucket of 'don't ever help again' posts

good luck with your non op machine.. I'll no longer onverse with you.

ps.. my 3000 steers fine.. i rebuilt it's box as well.

I was trying to help you think on your feet and do diagnostics / learn diagnostic skills you will need to maintain your machine. once of the best diagnostic skills is simple observation.

i've attached 2 pics to this post. one is of a steering box.. not the one on a 3000.. but will show you the size difference inthe threaded to splined diameters.. the next is a sector arms

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