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Order Ford 4500 Parts Online

755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ??

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kkl

06-02-2012 13:53:02




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I could desperately use some advice on changing a backhoe hydraulic line on my new-to-me Ford 4500 TLB with 755 backhoe. I feared that the problem would be getting the boom end of the hose off, since there is no space between hose ends, but was able to do it with a service wrench. See the first photo - the hose labeled A. Trying to get the other end off, under the controls, appears to be a nightmare. There is no room at all to get a wrench around that end. See photo 2, labeled A. So, I figured I would need to remove the hoses to it's left, labeled B and C, but I don't understand how to get those off. The ends disappear up into what I assume is the valve. I can't just turn the visible part, labeled with the arrows, can I? I assume that C is like the other end that goes to the outrigger (see photo 3, labeled C2). I've never taken the backhoe off, and don't want to start now, but it doesn't appear to me that it would even help. I'd appreciate any advice.

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kkl

06-10-2012 14:18:41




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
For anyone who finds this thread in the future, I stumbled across this post from 2003 that might be helpful:

Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I haven't verified this myself, but I assume it is true.[color=blue:90f85f1168][/color:90f85f1168]



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kkl

06-10-2012 12:47:41




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
It's finally done (and working). As I previously mentioned, I was stuck, literally, at the point where I could not get the hydraulic hose free from the control valve connector. It dawned on me that I could get a socket on that free end. So, off to the next town for another 100 mile round trip to find a large socket. I was so excited the following morning to get everything setup to remove the connector with an impact wrench. Had everything braced, turned on the wrench, and no movement. Still couldn't get the hose-end nut to swivel either. I had already tried to heat things up with a cheap torch, but it wouldn't stay lit in the wind. I had sprayed everything with penetrating oil the day earlier. The last thing I had to try was just a long wrench again. I braced one nut with a breaker bar and put a 12+" wrench on the other. It turned right off with a minimal effort. So, after all that, it seemed to be just letting the thing seep in penetrating oil for 24 hrs that did the trick. There was a fair amount of rust on the threads.

As for the swivel nut, it spun around freely as soon as I got the connector free from the nut. There was something about having the nut connected that kept it from spinning. It shouldn't work that way, should it? How would you unscrew the hose if the end won't spin?

As far as tools, I cut up both sides of a combination wrench and made myself a fork and spoon. I used a grinder and cut-off blade. It cut more easily than I had expected. I had never used one before and it seemed like all of the sparks wanted to go right at my (gloved) hand or my face (shielded by safety glasses and a mask).

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The fork was still too fat to fit into most spaces. I mostly used the spoon which worked very well. Neither would fit into that A-A gap, which is why I ended up working off the hoses to the right. I did end up buying a crowfoot flare nut wrench. I found that Napa and Amazon had them, but I could get it quicker from Amazon. I didn't end up using it though. It would fit around a new, uninstalled hose, but not around any old hose or the new one after it was filled with hydraulic fluid. It would probably fit if you put it on between two vise grip pliers, but I didn't want to damage the hoses. There is also no room on the boom end to get it on, but I thought later that it might be possible to get it on in the gap at the bottom of the boom and slide it up through the body.

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Thanks again to everyone who provided such extremely helpful suggestions.[color=blue:6a5d4b5c0f][/color:6a5d4b5c0f]

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kkl

06-07-2012 16:53:20




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to soundguy, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
I'm back to plead for more help. What a PITA this job is. I found no combination of regular wrench or Franken-wrench would let me get in the gap between the two "A" hoses, so I started on the right with the "B" hose.

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That allowed me to work over to the leaking hose and change it, but I've almost made my problem worse. I couldn't break loose the hose nut from the valve body extension, so I ended up unscrewing part of that extension. The problem now is that I cannot break loose that connection (C-D in photo). I've had a 4 foot breaker bar on one and a 16" wrench on the other with not a hint of loosening. Liquid Wrench penetrating oil hasn't helped. I don't have a torch to heat up the nut, so I'll get one of those tomorrow. I've gone over "righty tighty, lefty loosey" a jillion times in my head. Any other ideas about how to break this loose?

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Also, I don't know why I have problems with "swivel nuts" not swiveling. Presumably it swiveled when I got the hose off, but heck if I can move the swivel now. It took quite a bit of force for each and every of what seemed like 200 turns. Is the swivel point the left arrow (A-B) or the right arrow (B-C)? I thought it was B-C.

Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I've got friends in Maine. Maybe I'll go visit them and drop this thing off for you to work on. :twisted:

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El Toro

06-08-2012 18:59:13




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-07-2012 16:53:20  
The swivel nut is C. D is the tube fitting. Hold D with a wrench using your right hand and use your left hand with a big cresent wrench to loosen the swivel nut by pushing away from your body so the swivel nut is turning CCW. A&B are part of the hose and so is C the swivel nut. Hal



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kkl

06-03-2012 21:35:51




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
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Hobo,NC said: it takes two men and a monkey sometimes to work them off and back on[/quote:5b41da9206]

Can I get by with a desk-jockey man, a wife, and a dog? Otherwise, I may be in trouble. :lol: That looks like a tool designed perfectly for this job. I might have to order one if I can't get by with something more readily available.

El Toro said: You have swivel nuts on hose C2.


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That what I thought, but when I put a wrench on 1, it turned between 3 and 4. I tried to double-wrench 1 and 2 to see if it would swivel, but it wouldn't. I didn't try real hard, so maybe it's just frozen.

[quote:5b41da9206="steve n carol"]in your first photo, it shows 2- hex heads (1/2"?) do these hold a clamp? if so, can you remove these and gain more room to insert wrenches?


I'm not sure what you're referring to, but I think you mean the 'nut' to the left of A. I believe that is the end of a rigid hydraulic line that comes down inside the boom. They terminate and are fastened through a steel plate. Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be a way to spread them.
This post was edited by kkl at 21:43:08 06/03/12.

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El Toro

06-04-2012 06:57:34




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-03-2012 21:35:51  
When you're installing the new hoses make sure you don't start them cross-threaded. Don't use a wrench until you start them by hand and they should turn easily then use a wrench to tighten the hose end without the swivel nut. Then start the swivel nut by hand it should turn easily. Then use a wrench to tighten the swivel nut. If the old hoses have an o-ring on the hose end without the swivel nut install a new o-ring coated with hydraulic oil your tractor uses. Hal

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El Toro

06-04-2012 04:30:51




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-03-2012 21:35:51  
Your swivel nut is No2, not No1 and you hold No3 if it turns so you can loosen No2. Hal
PS: No1 is part of the hose you're trying to disconnect.



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steve n carol

06-03-2012 18:47:06




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
kkl, in your first photo, it shows 2- hex heads (1/2"?) do these hold a clamp? if so, can you remove these and gain more room to insert wrenches?



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Hobo,NC

06-03-2012 18:38:33




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
This is the best tool I have found for that type of job...

http://www.royalsupply.com/store/pc/1-2-Drive-Crowfoot-Wrenches-c2754.htm

http://www.royalsupply.com/store/pc/Wright-Tool-1070-15-16-3-8-Drive-Crowfoot-Wrench-Flare-Nut-12-Pt-p49822.htm

I have had to use a air chisel to rattle them loose and back on,,, its rare a modified wrench will get'er done,,, it takes two men and a monkey sometimes to work them off and back on.... I will cut the hose if need b to get at the hex nut with a socket its a guessing game any ways to get the correct length...

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kkl

06-03-2012 14:20:11




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
Thanks again everyone for the great advice and tips.

Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Are you saying that you hung upside down with your head between the backhoe and the tractor and were able to do any useful work that way? Wow, I'm getting old. :)
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see Good tip.

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From your photo, it appears that you have some sort of extension between the valve body and what I originally labeled "hose A". That looks way easier to get off. Any idea where that came from or what it is?

Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I rechecked and there is definitely no swivel in the visible part of E on the left. So if the whole hose has to turn, how would you ever remove (without cutting) or reinstall a hose, since the other end is the same (see C2 in photo 3)?

Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I wish that a coat of paint could hide the serious problems I've had. See my embarrassing saga from another tractor forum for how I paid over $2400 to fix my 4500 that "runs good" purchased from a popular tractor auction house.

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petetherookie

06-04-2012 08:51:15




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-03-2012 14:20:11  
kkl,

Those extension were on it when I got it. They work great at making more room btw fittings.
But, like I said, if you are going to change all the hoses, just take em' all off and start in the middle to put them back on.
I would get wrench on fitting, put tension on it with a bungee cord so I could let go if it. Then lay my chest down on deck reach down and p 18" pipe over end of wrench. And pull!
Took 2 days to all of them.
Another poster said the way to actually do it is to take the hoe off. I do not have it handy but the hoe is designed to lift itself off the back of the tractor using the 2 stabilizers and setting the hoe all the way out! I wanted to try it but all I have to work on is either my gravel driveway or the lawn behind my house. Which is not level and not all that stable. BTW, OMG, read your saga thread. While that sucked your 4500 looks fantastic! Wish mine looked like that.
I think you actually got lucky that the prior owner "dumped" the tractor because they did not want to split it. Let you get a otherwise clean 4500. To get mine to look like that I would need to buy a new Loader AND a new Hoe.
Hercules looks like he has spent decades working in a 3rd world country. More welds on top of welds. I have avoided splitting tractor by installing drips trays under almost everything that leaks!
Worst leak is the left swing cylinder. I attached a hose to the vent fitting and the hydro fluid pumps out into a overflow bottle!

Wish you were close, I would come help you.
But goggle maps says Rockvale, Colorado (ur IP address location) is over 2000 miles away.

Pete
pgmomni@maine.rr.com

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El Toro

06-03-2012 18:39:58




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-03-2012 14:20:11  
You have swivel nuts on hose C2. You would disconnect that end of the hose first so you can remove the hose by using a wrench to loosen the hose end without the swivel nut. Once you have
the hose loose you can probably just turn the hose CCW by hand to remove it. Hal



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petetherookie

06-03-2012 12:30:54




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
Hi,
Congrats on the 4500. I have a '66 I got myself for Xmas 2010. Beast of a machine. Named him Hercules.

Had to change all the hoses to the hoe as one burst and made a mess, and 6 months later another one did and made another mess. Swing arm cylinders both need work, one leaks like a sieve.

Got the cheap wrenches from Harbor freight and used wheel grinder to take off enough to get btw a few of the fittings.

This is how I did it. Clean, clean and clean again until all dirt and hydro fluid gone. My hoe is a real mess and was filthy.

Removed the entire backhoe seat. With that off the deck it is a lot easier to lay on deck and reach down to hose fittings.

I took pics, got that diagram you have. Started with hoses in the hoe arm. Any hose you know for sure you are going to throw out, just cut them off in that opening in the lower arm. Then you can use a open end wrench on the fitting and get a large ratchet over the cut off end. Under the deck just remove all the hoses and replace them one at a time working you way out from the middle.
Obviously be careful to keep it all clean and double, triple check you have the right spot on both ends before you go to the next one.

Feel free to send me a email if you want my phone nbr to call.

Pete

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steve n carol

06-03-2012 07:29:05




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
Good advise, Good pictures!
I picked up some crows feet wrenches from e bay. If you were closer you could use them and my torches.
About a professional doing this.... I am very much a DIYer... I considered it (for my BH hoses)... It's not a ford BH, and has considerably more room than yours. I did succeed... There are "mobile" mechanics, you don't have to take your tractor to a shop. They are hungry these days....

Keep up the good work, be patient....sl

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kkl

06-03-2012 07:13:36




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
I really appreciate the helpful advice so far. At this point, I think I'll pursue the box end wrench + grinder = flare nut wrench option.

I'm still trying to understand where the hoses are going and realized that I had looked at the parts diagram on the NH website a few days ago. They do go into the control valve, so there is no 'above' access.

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I've re-labeled a different photo to try to match the parts diagrams letters:

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So...

E - It seems like I should just be able to unscrew that one, but it doesn't look like a swivel connector.

J - It also looks like I should be able to unscrew J from the visible nut. Worst case scenario is that the adapter (J-27) comes with it. Not sure how hard it would be to get back in.

El Toro, is that what you're saying, that those hoses can be removed by turning the visible nuts CCW?

Any additional thoughts/advice on removal of E & J?

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El Toro

06-03-2012 09:36:40




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-03-2012 07:13:36  
To loosen the swivel nuts and the hoses you would need to them to your left which would be CCW. I don't think you have right tube fitting on hose J. That fitting is attached to hose J at the block and will unscrew by turning the hose. Hoses E are like hose J and will unscrew from the block. Hoses A and B have swivel nuts.

You probably need to remove hoses starting on your left with hose E. The new hoses would need to be installed starting with hose E on the right in your picture. The swivel nuts and hoses need to turn in the direction of your arrows to loosen. Hal
PS: Mark each hose on both ends as you remove them with a number or letter as to where they were removed. If you don't feel up to it have your shop to do it. It's going to be a big job.

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El Toro

06-03-2012 06:23:11




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
You would need to remove C & B by removing the hose ends with the swivel nuts first and then removing the hoses by turning that hose end CCW.
Those hose ends without the swivel nuts may be pipe thread or they have an o-ring. Would make it easier if they had swivel nuts on both ends. You may be able to buy replacement tube fittings so you can use swivel nuts. Hal



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showcrop

06-03-2012 05:24:11




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
I have adapted wrenches with grinder and stick welder a few times. Sounds like this is where you convince your wife that you NEED the Oxy-Acetylene set.



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Greg Wolodkin

06-03-2012 04:15:26




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
As others have suggested, a grinder might be all you need to slim up the wrenches. Similarly a sawzall or even a hacksaw could be used to turn a box wrench into a flare wrench. Slower than a torch but it would work in a pinch.

Great photos, by the way! Definitely helps to understand your problem.

Good luck!

Greg



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john_bud

06-02-2012 21:02:32




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
Oh boy! That sure looks like fun ... not! The comment on special tools is spot on. They are spendy, but after banging your head on a project, they are much easier to buy. (I know!)

I hate to say it but that fresh paint makes my skin crawl. Sooooo much bad is often hidden under 0.003" thickness of paint.


Hopefully, you can get the hoses done relatively cheaply. Then you should check that all the grease fittings are in place, the frame (and tractor) is crack free, the bushings are good, the pins are good, etc.

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OH - 961

06-02-2012 20:53:25




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to Dean, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
2 more tips on this project:

Make sure the hoses are the same diameter as the originals. If they are fatter, they won't fit in the "finger clamp" where they go to the boom, if yours has the clamp.
They also need to be the correct length to connect up properly and neatly.

I ended up buying mine from the dealer because NAPA messed up and made up the wrong size hoses.

Myron

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OH - 961

06-02-2012 20:39:53




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to soundguy, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
sotxbill has it right - label everything and make a sketch of where it goes, then work from the outer hoses toward the inner hoses and back out in reverse order.

I was lucky enough to find some professional quality combination wrenches cheap at a flea market, and promptly took the torch and cut them in half.

I then ground down the open ends to fit into the cramped space, and cut openings in the box end to make cheap "flare nut wrenches". Between the 2 "new" sets of wrenches, I was able to get all the hoses off and back on at a fraction of the price of buying the correct specialty wrenches from Snap-On or someone else. Even if you had to get new wrenches from Sears Craftsman and "ruin" them, it would be cheaper than buying the special wrenches.

Just make sure the wrenches are the right size for each fitting - nothing worse than rounded-off fittings in that location!

Myron

edit: if you don't have a torch set, a small angle grinder with a cutting wheel will make the cuts on the wrenches.
This post was edited by OH - 961 at 20:46:14 06/02/12.

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kkl

06-02-2012 18:05:53




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

You make it sound so easy. :wink:
I've got the cheap wrenches (service wrenches from Harbor Freight), but I don't have a torch and have never used one for cutting, so that may be beyond my capability.

Before taking it to the professionals for a wallet biopsy, another question; coming from the other side, there is another large nut/hose, then another "B" type, like in photo 2. Can I remove that "B" type hose by unscrewing the visible nut, or is there something above that would just turn with it?

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sotxbill

06-02-2012 16:39:28




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
btdi... you will need a bunch of cheap wrenchs that fit.. then you take a torch and cut the sides of the wrenchs down to barely enough to get the job done.. I did all of mine at once so i could work from outside to in takeing them off and then from inside out,, putting them back...

but... draw a picture of each line where it connects on both ends before you start.

dont get in a hurry and be prepare to make it a life long project as that it will fill like one.. I worked a couple of hours each day till i either lost my temper or smashed a finger.. usually both.. but after a couple of days and then a couple of weeks later.. it was done...

I cant remember the sizes like 3/4 or 1 1/8 or something like that on the wrenches.. cut the sides down, so the wrench will slip in, between the other hoses, and cut the handle down so you can put a cheater pipe on it.. and get another bite with a shorter handle in that very small hole.

good luck and buy a load of bandaids.

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kkl

06-02-2012 14:39:07




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to 36 coupe, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
Thanks very much for the reply.

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Well, that's a very user-friendly design - NOT! I don't have those tools, but I don't see how one would even gain access to the area above those hoses. It's right under the operator's platform. I looked under the control box, and there's no access there.



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rufus80

06-02-2012 14:13:20




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 Re: 755 (4500) hydraulic hose change (photos) ?? in reply to kkl, 06-02-2012 13:53:02  
The ones that appear to dissapear into the block are o-ring boss fittings. You have to take the other end loose to turn the hose out. The other hoses next to them have adapters screwed into the block. Going to need some flare nut wrenches and/or special hydraulic wrenches that the head is offset to 45 and 30.



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