3000 D Hyd. Pump

MDW · Apr 14, 2012

Hi All, The lift on my 65, 3000 has been having times lately when it refuses to pick up. This is during use when everything is warm. If I just wait and work the lever it will eventually start working again. Has been around a year since I put a cover kit in and cleaned the filter and new oil. After it picks all the way up I sometimes hear a knocking. Screwdriver in the ear indicates the sound is in the pump. Sounds like a cylinder valve out of adjustment. Noise stops when I let the lever down a little. You can see the drop of oil on the pipe plug where I cracked to bleed, no air, no bubbles, just oil.

I've seen discussed here that more than one pump was used. So the question is which pump is this, so that I might order an overhaul kit?

Thanks .. Matt

Ultradog MN · Apr 14, 2012

I believe that the 3 different pumps they used on those tractors had to do with the style of connections (pressure/suction)to the pump. But the guts of the pump itself should all be the same. You have an early style with the 3 bolt flange which was discontinued in 68 or thereabouts.
But...
I wouldn't just start throwing parts at it just yet. I would at least buy a pressure gauge and test the pump to see what pressure it is making.
Some guys here are better at guiding you through a sticking unloading valve under the top cover.
I would at least wait to see what they have to say.
They used to sell about the same gauge on this site but I can't find it now.
gauge

MDW · Apr 14, 2012

Thanks Ultradog, Makes sense, You are always there with a quick and good answer.
I might be able to temporarily rob a gauge from my press. Check at the bleed plug?

Ultradog MN · Apr 14, 2012

[i:654c4848f0]"Check at the bleed plug?"[/i:654c4848f0]

Yes.

MDW · Apr 14, 2012

Just checked, 2000 PSI at the bleed plug, no load on the lift. Lots of the tapping noise at the 2000. Tapping noise lessens in volume and frequency as the control lever is let down as well as the pressure drops. I can still hear the noise around 1000. With no load the needle is very jumpy around 1000. A little hard to hear the noise, PO installed a cherry bomb muffler and I haven't ever done anything about it except wear earmuffs.

If anyone is following this my plug was 3/8". Had a bushing handy.

Ultradog MN · Apr 16, 2012

Well,
I waited here hoping someone else would chime in but it looks like it's me and you.
The pressure should not be dropping down to 1000.
Should stay up higher. And it should read higher too. Like 2500 psi or so.
Tell me more about the tapping noise.
When I had a pump go out it made a chattering noise. Rat a tat tat like. Real fast.
Only when you'd try to raise the 3 point.
And the lift arms stuttered when they tried to raise up.
Does that sound like your symptoms?

MDW · Apr 16, 2012

As before Ultradog, thanks,

More on the noise: When I checked Saturday night in the dark there was no implement on the lift. I can try it today with a bushog or something heavy on. The pressure drop is when the lift is being let down. Is that not expected? The best description I have of the noise is like an old car that has a tapping engine valve. Volume of the noise is low enough that it is a little hard to hear over the diesel with a straight muffler. That's why I had to use a screwdriver to isolate it. During the times Saturday when the lift was refusing to work there was no noise. Yes, there seemed to be some chatter in the lift when it would start to raise after a spell of failure. then it would seem to clear up and work pretty smooth for a while.

Another thing that might play into this is when I put the lift cover kit in over a year ago I adjusted the control lever as I understood the manual. Before adjustment all the action was in the upper half of the quadrant, after adjusting all the movement of the lift is in the lower half to 2/3s of the quadrant. Haven't been concerned enough to take the cover off because it still would drop and lift fine. Just causes more bending over to work the lever, should have left that alone. I had lots of chatter and hiccups before the lift cover job, not much after.

Most of the noise is after the lift tops out. Especially if I continue to raise the lever after the lift is all the way up. My main concern about the noise is I don't want to ignore it until an $X repair becomes an $X times 5 or 10 repair.

JMOR · Apr 16, 2012

(quoted from post at 10:29:34 04/16/12) As before Ultradog, thanks,

More on the noise: When I checked Saturday night in the dark there was no implement on the lift. I can try it today with a bushog or something heavy on. The pressure drop is when the lift is being let down. Is that not expected? The best description I have of the noise is like an old car that has a tapping engine valve. Volume of the noise is low enough that it is a little hard to hear over the diesel with a straight muffler. That's why I had to use a screwdriver to isolate it. During the times Saturday when the lift was refusing to work there was no noise. Yes, there seemed to be some chatter in the lift when it would start to raise after a spell of failure. then it would seem to clear up and work pretty smooth for a while.

Another thing that might play into this is when I put the lift cover kit in over a year ago I adjusted the control lever as I understood the manual. Before adjustment all the action was in the upper half of the quadrant, after adjusting all the movement of the lift is in the lower half to 2/3s of the quadrant. Haven't been concerned enough to take the cover off because it still would drop and lift fine. Just causes more bending over to work the lever, should have left that alone. I had lots of chatter and hiccups before the lift cover job, not much after.

Most of the noise is after the lift tops out. Especially if I continue to raise the lever after the lift is all the way up. My main concern about the noise is I don't want to ignore it until an $X repair becomes an $X times 5 or 10 repair.

y thoughts on your noise: The way I see it, once the lift reaches upper limit, the lift piston contacts a pin on the control valve linkage which moves the linkage & valve to a position which re-directs flow so as to move the unloader valve to its "unload" position. This stops flow to lift cylinder AND directs pump flow to the backpressure valve, which is a very low (~40psi) relief valve. This basically allows the pump to loaf along doing nearly no work when no lifting is being commanded. Since you have (in my opinion) far too high a pressure during "no lifting" operation and "lowering", then it sounds as though the lift linkage is not adjusted correctly. I believe you can only see the 2500psi when action is taken to block the pump output in some way OR when you try to lift a load greater than the lift capacity of the tractor...when all linkage is adjusted and working properly. So, the noise is a result of the pump working against a high pressure (dead head) at times when it should be loafing along doing nearly nothing. Overpressure relief valve is likely dumping and saving pump from damage during this time.

MDW · Apr 16, 2012

Thanks JMOR, As soon as I get a chance I'll pull the lift cover again and see if I can figure where I went wrong. I'll also check that unloader valve this time. Reading here, that seems to be a common cause of problems. Y'all have likely saved me from buying a pump kit and getting into a job that might be over my head.

Matt

3000 D Hyd. Pump

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