4000SU diesel starter wiring

This message is a reply to an archived post by Greg Wolodkin on February 13, 2011 at 13:10:28.<br>The original subject was "Re: wiring schematic for Ford 4400 Ind. Diesel".<br><br>

Big battery cable goes right to the starter. On that same lug there should be another wire which heads back to the key switch via the regulator. This is the "B+" or brown wire. May be different on newer models with an alternator instead of a generator, but on mine, it's really two wires, both brown, from starter to regulator and from regulator to key switch.

When you turn the key to engage the starter, connection is made from this brown B+ wire to the neutral safety switch (white wire with yellow stripe). This is a switch in the transmission that only closes when the transmission is in neutral. This means the tractor won't start unless it's in neutral (more on this later).

The wire from the other side of the neutral safety switch (white with red stripe) heads to the solenoid and gets the tractor turning over...

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I'm having this problem with both diagrams and descriptions.

This wire goes to the starter.

This wire goes to the solenoid.

Where on them? My diesel 4000SU starter-mounted solenoid has two terminals and a spade connector - 3 connections in all. So "goes to solenoid" means nothing to me. There is a ground terminal on the starter and an insulated strap from inside the starter that goes to one terminal on the solenoid. So "goes to the starter" also tells me nothing.

I've found starter wiring diagrams, but none of them shows specific connections either, including the one found right here.

I'm having to wire from scratch. I have 2 heavy red wires to the alternator and (apparently) to the starter switch. I have a lighter yellow wire from the starter switch. I have two battery cables.

I assume the negative cable goes to the ground post on the starter, but haven't a clue about the rest.

Any help out there about where to put what?

many solenoids have 2 high amp connections.. one for bat, the other xfer to starter.. the smaller terminal is solenoid field... this one usually goes thru a NS switch after the key.. etc..

Here are a few pictures that might help.

For a negative ground system (pretty sure all 4000SU tractors are..) connect your positive battery terminal to BAT.

Power to the key switch comes from the same lug as the battery power (labeled BAT in the picture below, via the lug(s) labeled "TO KEYSWITCH").

The terminal labeled "FIELD" is energized by the white/red wire coming from the neutral safety switch. You want the field energized whenever the key is in the start position and the transmission is in neutral. Check it with a meter before hooking it up.

When the field is energized, power is supplied to the starting motor via the terminal marked "MOTOR".

Solenoid GROUND connection to starter is made with a copper strap as shown in the second picture. You can also see the red wire (mine is black, yours may vary) connecting the MOTOR terminal of the solenoid to the starter motor. I think that's what you're referring to as the "insulated strap coming from inside the starter".

Last photo shows a glimpse of the solenoid on my own 4000su, where you can see I have some cleaning to do on the terminal that is connected to the BAT power via the copper plate. Looks white with oxidation. White wire with yellow terminal (center of photo) powers my keyswitch. White wire with red stripe (top of photo) connects the "start" side of the keyswitch to the FIELD terminal.

(quoted from post at 20:28:41 03/07/12) Here are a few pictures that might help.

Power to the key switch comes from the same lug as the battery power (labeled BAT in the picture below, via the lug(s) labeled "TO KEYSWITCH").

The terminal labeled "FIELD" is energized by the white/red wire coming from the neutral safety switch.

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Thanks,

So there is a hidden wire from the starter switch down to the safety switch, right? I've looked all over and can't find anything that looks like wires or connections for the safety switch.

OK, those pictures show more terminal bolts than mine. Yours looks closest, but is that a terminal post under the white wire next to the red battery cable end? And is that a strap running from it to the left? That would seem to make yours have 3 post terminals while the others show at least 4? Mine has only 2.

When I got this 4000SU it had no connection to a safety switch. (I never, ever start ANYTHING without putting it in neutral and often depress the clutch too.)

In the absence of the safety switch wiring (yes, that's a big no-no) then a BAT wire would go directly to the switch and another wire (like your white) back to the spade terminal, right? That's how I think it was wired before I pulled the old starter. That's how I put it back.

When the field is energized, power is supplied to the starting motor via the terminal marked "MOTOR".

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I believe by MOTOR you are also referring to the strapped terminal in the middle picture?

Solenoid GROUND connection to starter is made with a copper strap as shown in the second picture.

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That is a ground?? Mine is insulated through the starter housing and runs to the stator windings.

You can also see the red wire (mine is black, yours may vary) connecting the MOTOR terminal of the solenoid to the starter motor. I think that's what you're referring to as the "insulated strap coming from inside the starter".

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As in the middle picture? That strap shows in your (bottom) picture, going off to the right. Is your black wire coming from under the white one?

Last photo shows a glimpse of the solenoid on my own 4000su, where you can see I have some cleaning to do on the terminal that is connected to the BAT power via the copper plate. Looks white with oxidation. White wire with yellow terminal (center of photo) powers my keyswitch. White wire with red stripe (top of photo) connects the "start" side of the keyswitch to the FIELD terminal.

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Hm, that looks like yours has no safety switch, just like mine....

Too confusing with all the pictures of different configurations.





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(quoted from post at 01:46:21 03/07/12) many solenoids have 2 high amp connections.. one for bat, the other xfer to starter.. the smaller terminal is solenoid field... this one usually goes thru a NS switch after the key.. etc..

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Thanks.

So without the safety switch that would go directly to the output of the starter switch?

It's looking like my first attempt to wire this thing was right on. So now I have to wonder why I got nothing but a single click when I tried to start it. Last I checked my battery was 13 V. Hm, it isn't now. The huge battery is only a little over a year old, but a new one might be the whole solution.

(quoted from post at 23:07:54 03/07/12)

So there is a hidden wire from the starter switch down to the safety switch, right? I've looked all over and can't find anything that looks like wires or connections for the safety switch.

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It's not hidden.. but the previous owner of your tractor may have removed it. On the manual transmissions it's a wire from the key switch down into the top of the transmission shifter/cover plate to a switch under that plate. Wire from the switch then comes back out the top of the shifter plate and makes its way to the field terminal on the solenoid.

Tell us what kind of transmission you have if you want more specifics about the wiring for the neutral safety switch. I suspect the SOS transmission may be different.

(quoted from post at 23:07:54 03/07/12)

OK, those pictures show more terminal bolts than mine. Yours looks closest, but is that a terminal post under the white wire next to the red battery cable end? And is that a strap running from it to the left? That would seem to make yours have 3 post terminals while the others show at least 4? Mine has only 2.

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Post a picture.

(quoted from post at 23:07:54 03/07/12)

Too confusing with all the pictures of different configurations.

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Sorry, just trying to help. All three pictures are the same basic configuration from different angles.

There are two connections from the solenoid down to the starter below it. looking from the front of the tractor toward the solenoid, the ground connection is the one on the bottom right, probably hard to see when the starter is mounted. Real easy to see in picture two because of the angle it's taken from.

The motor connection is the one on the bottom left, and can also be somewhat hard to see. In the second picture, the bolt is partially hidden behind the ground bolt but if you look you can see the red wire heading down into the starter housing. In the third picture, the bolt is somewhat hidden behind a white wire and its terminal but you can see the silver metal plating and then insulated (black) wire entering the starter housing.

Note that the bolt just clockwise from the BAT connection is simply connected directly to the BAT connection. That bolt is unlabeled in picture one, and it's also the one that looks white in picture three. In picture one you can clearly see a copper bar that connects it to the BAT terminal. So although there are four bolts, two of them are tied together and in theory one of them could be eliminated.

Similarly, the ground connection for the field could be hidden, achieved through mechanical connection between the solenoid and starter, leaving you with two bolts and a slide terminal for the field. But again, post a picture and then folks can help you for sure.

I found one picture of an older Lucas solenoid with two bolts. The article isn't tractor-related but the parts are similar and there is some background on solenoids and starter wiring that may also help you out if you don't have a service manual.

http://www.moke.com.au/how-to-articles/421-fitting-a-gemini-starter

Good luck -
Greg

(quoted from post at 00:11:13 03/08/12)


Post a picture.

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OK, just about everything on this machine was bad. the starter switch, a wire to the starter switch, the + battery cable, the - battery cable, the battery itself, the starter.

Now I have everything new - and still got one click when I first tried the starter (was that the solenoid almost activating?), and it is totally dead since then, not even a click. Mind blowing.

I'll try to post a pic of the starter. Ah, success.

As I said, 2 posts and a spade terminal. The lower post is strapped to the insulated post on the side of the starter. The terminal (is that the solenoid "field?") wire comes from the starter switch which is fed from the positive cable on the top post. (That means the starter switch, no NS switch now, is between the battery and the little terminal on the right.)

I have the neg cable on the uninsulated lower left bolt on the end of the starter. That leaves only the top post for the positive cable, right? It looks easy, but...

There is also a wire from the self-regulated alternator on that top post, altho I don't know how that would enter into it.

I don't get it.

Sounds like you've got everything hooked up right. Just as a test, can you try disconnecting the alternator from the post on the solenoid so that only the battery cable is hooked there? If it works like that, then that means that something's wrong with the alternator or it's not hooked up right at the other end of the alternator cable.

(quoted from post at 16:42:15 04/04/12) Sounds like you've got everything hooked up right. Just as a test, can you try disconnecting the alternator from the post on the solenoid so that only the battery cable is hooked there? If it works like that, then that means that something's wrong with the alternator or it's not hooked up right at the other end of the alternator cable.

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I just stumbled across and solved the LATEST problem. I think it will go now - as soon as I put the switch back in. You would NEVER believe what happened this time. One more weird thing. Totally out of the blue. I haven't got the nerve to post it, because I would have to blame gremlins, demons or aliens.

Thanks

If it was aliens, then the only thing that your tractor will be good for is making crop circles.

(quoted from post at 18:41:25 04/04/12) If it was aliens, then the only thing that your tractor will be good for is making crop circles.

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Doesn't matter right now. Got it going. Moved some dirt. Left spindle broke clean off. Makes it kinda low on that side.

Of course if that was from maser damage...

You know, I heard that no farmers ever got paid for crop circles. Chintzy aliens.