Ford 601/651 Starter Switch Wiring Issue

RTR · Feb 28, 2012

I just installed a new transmission starter switch for the Ford 651 tractor. I am assuming it is installed right. All I did was unbolt the shifter, carefully remove woodruff key and spring, remove the trans. cover, loosen the nut on the switch, remove old switch, install new switch and gasket, and bolt everything back up. I previously installed a new magnetic solenoid switch thinking that was the problem. I wired it just like the old one was on there when it was working fine before. Still nothing! I had a spare universal push button start switch laying around and bolted it to the dash and wired it up (according to attached diagram).....it starts the tractor fine, however I want the orginal to work.

Please see attached diagram and tell me what I am doing wrong. I have no clue. I checked for power to the wire going to the trans. push button switch, and have nothing. I"M LOST!!!!

Also, not mentioned on the attached diagram is an on/off key switch for the ignition points. I turn it on to run the tractor and off to kill the engine. It works fine when I use the temp. start button.

The new switch I installed is doing NOTHING! Yes, I did put the tractor in neutral...haha

old · Feb 28, 2012

Ok so from your picture you have 4 wires on the solenoid right?? 2 big ones as in the battery cable and then the starter side of it and then 2 small ones right?? If yes you have an automotive type solenoid and it is not set up to work on a tractor due to the fact a tractor solenoid uses a ground circuit instead of a hot circuit. You need a true 3 wire tractor solenoid

souNdguy · Feb 28, 2012

the 01 tractor used a 4 connection solenoid. 2 big ones are bat and starter.. 2 little ones ar ehe field coil. one side to hot or key hot, the other side to ground, which is the thumb switch..

this is an isolated base solenoid

normal 4 post auto solenoids are 'bypass style' and WILL NOT work for that setup.

you want one of the following:

Ford N/H and Tisco NCA11450A
Napa ST53
BWD S53 (sold at many part stores under differant brand names)

( text courtest john in la )

JMOR · Feb 28, 2012

(quoted from post at 20:13:04 02/28/12) the 01 tractor used a 4 connection solenoid. 2 big ones are bat and starter.. 2 little ones ar ehe field coil. one side to hot or key hot, the other side to ground, which is the thumb switch..

this is an isolated base solenoid

normal 4 post auto solenoids are 'bypass style' and WILL NOT work for that setup.

you want one of the following:

Ford N/H and Tisco NCA11450A
Napa ST53
BWD S53 (sold at many part stores under differant brand names)

( text courtest john in la )

retty sure that the NAPA ST53 is not the correct solenoid for this application......may mean that the others aren't either if they cross.

souNdguy · Feb 28, 2012

that may be the 3 post soleniid.. however will work witht he grounding thumb switch just fine, as it would be what the naa/00 used. just have to remember it will roll over with key off.

don't have my parts list with me so working from memory here.. but the st53 does cross to the ford #.. just can't remember if it is the 3 post like the naa/00 used or a 4 post

souNdguy · Feb 28, 2012

311007 is the 4 poster, 6v

st541 is the napa #

my bad... memory isn't what it used to be...

awhtx · Feb 28, 2012

If you have a Ford 311007 (or equivalent) starter relay you need "switched" power connected to the small terminal that has nothing connected to it in the diagram.

john in la · Feb 28, 2012

You are going to burn that tempoary starter button out real quick because it is carrying full starter draw the way you have it wired or at least pictured.
So take it off now. Every thing in green.

For a 12v conversion you need relay
Ford 311006
Napa ST 542
Or
BWD S103

Ford 311007; ST 541 and S67 will work but that is 6v parts. Might as well us 12v parts on a converted tractor.
The Parts Soundguy listed is the 3 post relay for older tractors.

Not knowing if you bought the right part lets do some test.
Hook the wire from the trans to the I small post on the relay.
Remember we unhooked all the green wires. Right!!
Now touch a jumper wire from the large post where battery hooks to the small S post.
Does it crank???
Yes.... You have wrong relay
No... GOOD

If No hold this same jumper wire you had before but also push the starter button on trans.
Does it crank now???
Yes... Good; Remove jumper wire and run a wire from The small S post to the key (hot only when on) post. This is the same post that has your wire to the coil.
No... Post back and we will try something else.

Here is a complete wiring diagram so you can see the correct way.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 1, 2012

i posted a simple 1 wire fix for this but the word police took it off.Must have made the 12 volters cry.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 1, 2012

The solenoid he has will work by adding one wire.

RTR · Mar 1, 2012

(quoted from post at 17:35:35 03/01/12) The solenoid he has will work by adding one wire.

3 QUESTIONS=

Ok, so If I can crank the tractor by jumping the 2 posts ONLY on the solendoid, then I need to buy a new one with the part numbers suggested??

If I can crank it by jumping the posts and pressing the button, I have to do what? Re-wire differently?

Will the tractor not crank properly the way it is outfitted and wired (not talking about the pushbutton in green on the diagram).?

I simply just put everything back together the way it came apart and was working fine. Sounds like I must have bought the wrong solenoid at the parts place. I realize that the temporary pushbutton will burn out eventually, that is why I'm wanting to fix the original setup like it was working last year.

THANKS FOR THE HELP GUYS!

JMOR · Mar 1, 2012

(quoted from post at 19:02:51 03/01/12)

(quoted from post at 17:35:35 03/01/12) The solenoid he has will work by adding one wire.

Click to expand...

3 QUESTIONS=

Ok, so If I can crank the tractor by jumping the 2 posts ONLY on the solendoid, then I need to buy a new one with the part numbers suggested??

If I can crank it by jumping the posts and pressing the button, I have to do what? Re-wire differently?

Will the tractor not crank properly the way it is outfitted and wired (not talking about the pushbutton in green on the diagram).?

I simply just put everything back together the way it came apart and was working fine. Sounds like I must have bought the wrong solenoid at the parts place. I realize that the temporary pushbutton will burn out eventually, that is why I'm wanting to fix the original setup like it was working last year.

THANKS FOR THE HELP GUYS!

f you can't see from looking at these drawings, why one 2-small-terminal solenoid will work in your application & the other won't, ask more questions. You need the one on left.

RTR · Mar 6, 2012

It is a little hard for me to understand those diagrams. One question......if the solendoid I had last time was a 3 terminal and this new one is a 4 terminal.....would that make a difference even though it is wired correctly. The reason why I question this is because it all worked great with the old solenoid.

NOW.....if you guys are positive that I need a different solenoid, then direct me to the correct one. NAPA or O'Reilly part number would be helpful.

I would hate to go and buy one, and go over to the guys house to put it on and that not fix his tractor. I've been trying to help him out and the push button switch didn't do the trick the last time after we had worked on it for a couple hours.

THANKS!!

(quoted from post at 04:29:54 03/02/12)

(quoted from post at 19:02:51 03/01/12)

(quoted from post at 17:35:35 03/01/12) The solenoid he has will work by adding one wire.

Click to expand...

3 QUESTIONS=

Ok, so If I can crank the tractor by jumping the 2 posts ONLY on the solendoid, then I need to buy a new one with the part numbers suggested??

If I can crank it by jumping the posts and pressing the button, I have to do what? Re-wire differently?

Will the tractor not crank properly the way it is outfitted and wired (not talking about the pushbutton in green on the diagram).?

I simply just put everything back together the way it came apart and was working fine. Sounds like I must have bought the wrong solenoid at the parts place. I realize that the temporary pushbutton will burn out eventually, that is why I'm wanting to fix the original setup like it was working last year.

THANKS FOR THE HELP GUYS!

Click to expand...

f you can't see from looking at these drawings, why one 2-small-terminal solenoid will work in your application & the other won't, ask more questions. You need the one on left.

JMOR · Mar 6, 2012

(quoted from post at 10:36:41 03/06/12) It is a little hard for me to understand those diagrams. One question......if the solendoid I had last time was a 3 terminal and this new one is a 4 terminal.....would that make a difference even though it is wired correctly. The reason why I question this is because it all worked great with the old solenoid.

NOW.....if you guys are positive that I need a different solenoid, then direct me to the correct one. NAPA or O'Reilly part number would be helpful.

I would hate to go and buy one, and go over to the guys house to put it on and that not fix his tractor. I've been trying to help him out and the push button switch didn't do the trick the last time after we had worked on it for a couple hours.

THANKS!!

(quoted from post at 04:29:54 03/02/12)

(quoted from post at 19:02:51 03/01/12)

(quoted from post at 17:35:35 03/01/12) The solenoid he has will work by adding one wire.

Click to expand...

3 QUESTIONS=

Ok, so If I can crank the tractor by jumping the 2 posts ONLY on the solendoid, then I need to buy a new one with the part numbers suggested??

If I can crank it by jumping the posts and pressing the button, I have to do what? Re-wire differently?

Will the tractor not crank properly the way it is outfitted and wired (not talking about the pushbutton in green on the diagram).?

I simply just put everything back together the way it came apart and was working fine. Sounds like I must have bought the wrong solenoid at the parts place. I realize that the temporary pushbutton will burn out eventually, that is why I'm wanting to fix the original setup like it was working last year.

THANKS FOR THE HELP GUYS!

Click to expand...

f you can't see from looking at these drawings, why one 2-small-terminal solenoid will work in your application & the other won't, ask more questions. You need the one on left.

Click to expand...

/quote]
"It is a little hard for me to understand those diagrams. One question......if the solendoid I had last time was a 3 terminal and this new one is a 4 terminal.....would that make a difference even though it is wired correctly. The reason why I question this is because it all worked great with the old solenoid. "
Sure, you can install a 3-terminal, even though it is the wrong one for a 651, which was designed to require BOTH the ignition key ON AND the neutral safety start switch depressed in order to activate the starter. With a 3-terminal ,depending on which one you use, either the neutral safety start will not work & start will simply be another position on the key switch OR neutral safety switch will activate the starter whether the ign key is ON or OFF. As for which solenoid do you need to put it back right, two different posters have already told you that either ST-542 or ST-541 will completely fill your needs.

RTR · Mar 6, 2012

Ok....I think I've got this. Say I went with the 2 terminal ST541 or the ST542 switch to replace the 3 terminal switch I have. Do I just keep the same connections that I have, onto the 2 big terminals of the new 2 terminal switch? If so, then what so I do with the wire going to the Neutral Start Push Button? It is currently on the 3rd small terminal, and if I go with a 2 terminal, then I don't know where I should put it. THANKS!

JMOR · Mar 6, 2012

(quoted from post at 17:14:25 03/06/12) Ok....I think I've got this. Say I went with the 2 terminal ST541 or the ST542 switch to replace the 3 terminal switch I have. Do I just keep the same connections that I have, onto the 2 big terminals of the new 2 terminal switch? If so, then what so I do with the wire going to the Neutral Start Push Button? It is currently on the 3rd small terminal, and if I go with a 2 terminal, then I don't know where I should put it. THANKS!

OOK at the drawing john in la gave you.

RTR · Mar 8, 2012

The relay on that drawing has 4 terminals. That is why I am confused. Sorry to not understand.

JMOR · Mar 8, 2012

(quoted from post at 11:14:16 03/08/12) The relay on that drawing has 4 terminals. That is why I am confused. Sorry to not understand.

he relay/solenoid on the drawing you included in your very first post had 4 terminals, so I guess it is me that doesn't understand your question????? What exactly is the question?

RTR · Mar 8, 2012

i currently have a 4 terminal solenoid switch.....that doesn't start the tractor. THe wiring diagram has a 4 terminal switch as well. I was told in this post to go and purchase a 2 terminal switch and that would solve my problem. I asked how I would hook up the 2 terminal switch, and you stated that I should look at the drawing that was given to me......that has the 4 terminal switch. THAT is how I'm confused.

JMOR · Mar 8, 2012

(quoted from post at 12:30:18 03/08/12) i currently have a 4 terminal solenoid switch.....that doesn't start the tractor. THe wiring diagram has a 4 terminal switch as well. I was told in this post to go and purchase a 2 terminal switch and that would solve my problem. I asked how I would hook up the 2 terminal switch, and you stated that I should look at the drawing that was given to me......that has the 4 terminal switch. THAT is how I'm confused.

hat in the world is a 2 terminal solenoid??? At the very least, you need big battery terminal, big starter motor terminal and one small activating terminal. The is, 3 at a minimum.

RTR · Mar 9, 2012

Ok, I think what you meant by 2 post was that it has 2 Small Posts. I got it now.

For clarification, this looks like the solenoid I have on the tractor. Are there different types of the one that looks like this? I really don't know why it's not working if I have the same type that came off of it.

Is is possible that the ammeter is bad, thus not giving power to the solenoid? I did a continuity test to the wire going to the push button transmission switch, and got nothing.

JMOR · Mar 9, 2012

(quoted from post at 17:42:53 03/09/12)
Ok, I think what you meant by 2 post was that it has 2 Small Posts. I got it now.

For clarification, this looks like the solenoid I have on the tractor. Are there different types of the one that looks like this? I really don't know why it's not working if I have the same type that came off of it.

Is is possible that the ammeter is bad, thus not giving power to the solenoid? I did a continuity test to the wire going to the push button transmission switch, and got nothing.

As I said days ago, if you have a 4-terminal solenoid, then it is likely one of these two:

You need the left unit if you want it wired as john's diagram.
To determine which one you have, take the solenoid in your hand and touch its [b:df04765124]case[/b:df04765124] to either battery terminal, then use a wire from the other battery terminal to first the left small terminal & then to the right small terminal......if the solenoid clicks/activates/does anything at all when wire is touched to either small terminal, then it is the wrong solenoid for this application.

Next, touch one small terminal to one battery post & use a wire to connect the other battery post to the other small terminal. If it clicks/activates/makes pull-in clunking noise, then you have the correct solenoid for this application.

Once we know that you have the correct solenoid, then we can continue.

Ford 601/651 Starter Switch Wiring Issue

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