3600 or 4600?

J.ReinkeFarms · Apr 5, 2011

My dad is looking at picking up another Ford tractor. He found what is listed as a 4600 that is all painted up pretty and has a cab on it that he thinks he needs. I went and looked at it and some things just don't add up to me. Is there any way to tell a 3600 from a 4600? From what I have seen so far the bore, stroke and oil capacity are different but I can't find much on casting numbers or anything else that would set the two apart. I tried looking at the serial number ranges but they are identical. Any ideas?

souNdguy · Apr 5, 2011

the 3600 would have the light duty front axle shared by all the tractors back to the 1939 9n. the 4xxx ( not SU models ) start the HD front axle.

that one looks like the hd front axle to me.. no radius rods.. etc.

the number under the hood or the trans bellhousing will tell you exactly what it is.

here's my 4600

then my 3000

see the difference

soundguy

J.ReinkeFarms · Apr 5, 2011

Well it does have the 4600 front end.

The number under the hood or trans bellhousing? Please do explain.

Fordfarmer · Apr 5, 2011

Soundguy nailed it. The one in your pic is a 4600.
3xxx models (prior to the 30 series, anyway) were
never available with the straight axle or that heavy
cast bolster. You occasionally see suitcase weights
on the 3xxx, but not often.

souNdguy · Apr 5, 2011

well.. from about 1954 up thru at least 2000 on the big NH models, on the trans bellhousing aft of the starter there is a flat boss where the sn and date code and model id is stamped.

that info also appears on an aluminum tag under the folding hood panel.( 65+ )

soundguy

Fordfarmer · Apr 5, 2011

The serial, model, and unit numbers are stamped on
the bellhousing and on the metallic sticker under
the hood. The model number will tell you size (3600,
4600, etc.), fuel, (gas, diesel or LP) trans., type
of pto, etc. If you can get those numbers, we can
decode them and tell exactly what you have, even the
day and shift it was built.

J.ReinkeFarms · Apr 5, 2011

Ok, that clears up some of my concerns. One other thing, is it possible to put a 3600 engine in a 4600 chassis? If so how would you tell the difference? It just seems a big under powered for having around 50hp. The dealer doesn't have a dyno to check it.

Fordfarmer · Apr 5, 2011

Yes, those engines will swap. Should be an engine
serial/ID number on the oil pan rail on -I think-
the left side, but I can't remember off hand how the
numbers differ between the two models.

souNdguy · Apr 5, 2011

yep.. all them 3 cy;s engines should swap..

did it seem under powered?

soundguy

J.ReinkeFarms · Apr 5, 2011

I don't have much to compare it to. The closest we had was a 3010 gas which is about 5 drawbar and 3 pto horse bigger. I know it's not quite equal comparing gas to diesel but after driving the 4600 it just seemed like the 3010 had a lot more. It will probably work either way for what he wants to do. The tach only shows 2100 hours on the 4600 and everything nice and tight. Just being cautious because I know a whole lot more about Deere's than Fords but my Dad was bitten by the Ford bug about 6 years ago.

souNdguy · Apr 5, 2011

I mow with a 3000, this 4600 now once, and a 5000.

as for 'feel'.. it lays out just like you think it would. the 4600 feels a bit stronger and beefier than the 3000, and a little bit weaker than the 5000.. looking at their book hp.. it's exactly what I would expect.

175ci, vs 201ci, vs 256ci ( all NA diesels )

soundguy

J.ReinkeFarms · Apr 5, 2011

Thanks both of you for your help. From the sounds of things he's going to buy it. I'll keep looking into the engine thing even though it doesn't really make a difference.

souNdguy · Apr 5, 2011

can always compari the date codes to see if the engine has been swapped..

soundguy

KFD68 · Apr 5, 2011

There is no comparison - the 4600 is a bigger HP and stronger castings tractor than the 3600. Larger rear axle with disc brakes, higher capacity hydraulics with higher lift capacity on 3 point hitch. The front end has stronger built front axle.

The power quoted in Britain for 3600 is 47HP
" " " " " 4600 is 62HP

The cab looks good.

BUY THE 4600 - its worth the extra over a 3600

Fordfarmer · Apr 5, 2011

Went out to the garage and looked at the FO41
manual... engine code stamped on the oil pan rail
will start with a 'C' for a 3600 (175 cubic inch)
and a 'D' for a 4600 (201 c.i.)

BobinWisc · Apr 5, 2011

Another thing to check for are the brakes (The 4600 has wet - inboard brakes and the 3600 dry- drum type brakes)

J.ReinkeFarms · Apr 5, 2011

(quoted from post at 13:23:44 04/05/11) Went out to the garage and looked at the FO41
manual... engine code stamped on the oil pan rail
will start with a 'C' for a 3600 (175 cubic inch)
and a 'D' for a 4600 (201 c.i.)

Thanks Fordfarmer, that is the exact information I have been looking for. Thank you again.

RodinNS · Apr 5, 2011

The frot axle alone tells you that this tractor is at minimum a 4600. If it's got a 3 cylinder engine then it's a surity.

Rod

KFD68 · Apr 5, 2011

1- fitting a 3xxx engine into 4xxx is possible but would be seriously UNDER powered.

2 - the "bubble" cab was made by Sankey in Britain. Very nice enviroment and plenty of room inside. But it was heavy and saps power.

3 - check the front of the cab for rust - they rusted out underneath the windscreen & front window rubbers. Also the rear pillars where they join the tops of the fenders.

4 - missing head lights

5 - check the pto stops turning when the lever is put into neutral and engine is running. If it continues to run the pto brake is worn out. Be careful when doing this, dont hold the pto shaft with your hand if its turning.

Ultradog MN · Apr 5, 2011

I think your numbers are engine hp not drawbar or pto hp. Actual power to the ground is about 10 hp less on both machines.
4600 is a great tractor.

Anonymous-0 · Apr 5, 2011

If the engine unit number on the label under the hood matches the number stamped on the front engine flange (on side shown in your photo) then it should be the original engine. Unit numbers are just the same as date codes. All the major assemblies have them and should be within a couple months of each other. The final tractor date (above starter) should be the newest number.

J.ReinkeFarms · Apr 5, 2011

Well he went ahead and bought it, saves me the trip of heading to the dealer to look at it again. The engine does have a D code on it so it should be the 201. Part of the tag under the hood is missing and I couldn't find the one on the bell housing. Seems to start fine and run fine, tomorrow I'm going to change the oil and filters in the engine and trans plus the fuel filter. Figure that may be plugged a bit and robbing power. All in all seems to be a decent little tractor.

RodinNS · Apr 5, 2011

Sad to say but with that cab and loaded tires you have close to an 8K# tractor. It's just going to be a dead dog in terms of power when you get running on the road...

Rod

crazylocha · Apr 5, 2011

And just to help with where some of the numbers are...

Oaktree's webpage for date codes and serial numbers

Fordfarmer · Apr 5, 2011

"4 - missing head lights"

Not all had the 4-headlamp set up. I think all the rowcrops (67/7700, 87/9700, and later models) did, but the utility models that I've seen have had two, as in this picture.

Fordfarmer · Apr 5, 2011

No tag on the bellhousing; just numbers stamped into
the flat above and to the rear of the starter.
Sometimes faint and hard to read. This appears to be
a repaint, so that would make them hard to
find/read.

J.ReinkeFarms · Apr 7, 2011

Thanks crazylocha for the link, I'll be checking things out on it this weekend.

After the round of oil and filter changes it seems to do alright. The top of the filter was covered with some black slime, mold I am assuming. So it got a shock treatment of biocide and a full tank of fuel. Didn't use it much after, will do more of that this weekend too.

3600 or 4600?

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