voltage stabilizer redux - Ford 4000 - so sick of this...

Ok, I've got a 4200 rowcrop with a new: cluster, sending units,& wire harness.

Can anyone say with certainty if these things (voltage stabilizer) actually steps down the voltage? The ones voltage bounces around, and the other is pegged at 12v. The temp guage has never worked, and the gas guage worked at one point but after taking the cluster apart and putting it back together umpteen times now the gas guage pegs up to max when you turn the key with the one stabilizer (12 volt one) and the other bounces up and down almost like a ticker....doink doink doink.

I'd rather know what the voltage is supposed to be and just put in some sort of regulator, voltage stepper(?), to convert the 12 volt to a constant lower voltage that the guages want.

I've been pulling my hair out over this ...help!

(quoted from post at 09:57:45 09/12/09) Ok, I've got a 4200 rowcrop with a new: cluster, sending units,& wire harness.

Can anyone say with certainty if these things (voltage stabilizer) actually steps down the voltage? The ones voltage bounces around, and the other is pegged at 12v. The temp guage has never worked, and the gas guage worked at one point but after taking the cluster apart and putting it back together umpteen times now the gas guage pegs up to max when you turn the key with the one stabilizer (12 volt one) and the other bounces up and down almost like a ticker....doink doink doink.

I'd rather know what the voltage is supposed to be and just put in some sort of regulator, voltage stepper(?), to convert the 12 volt to a constant lower voltage that the guages want.

I've been pulling my hair out over this ...help!

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I am aware that you said something such as "know with certainty", so that means I should not respond, but since no one has for the last several hours, I will give you what I do know. On the 70s-80s Ford trucks, the stabilizer output was 5 volts. Probably not a real stretch to expect your tractor to be the same. Hope someone comes along with a "known for sure" answer for you.

I assume you are going thru this because you are
converting to 12v and your gas gauge is 6v?
First, the unit that clicks is useless for your
purpose. It is like a turn signal, it switches on and off, the frequency depends on the current draw.
The other unit obviously doesn't work either, probably is the wrong resistance(too low).
The gas tank sender is just a variable resistor and the gauge measures the current thru the resistor. When you go from 6v to 12v you also double the current, hence the pegged gauge.
You might try a higher resistor in series with
the sender, but you won't ever get it to read accurately over its full range.
You can buy matching sender and gauge for 12v-
you said you have new units, are they the 6v or 12v ? If they were 12v units you shouldn't be having this problem. If you can verify, we can come up with more suggestions.
Scott

I was waiting for JMOR, Dell(WA) or souNdguy to respond because they are the electricians.
Here's what I understand about the instrument panel voltage regulator:
Inside the regulator is a set of contacts similar to the points in your distributor that make and break at a very rapid pace. By doing this the 12V input is "regulated" down to about 5V as JMOR said. If you see the gas gauge fluctuating with one of your regulators perhaps the contacts are not making and breaking fast enough for the gauge to "see" a steady 5V. It looks like you have disassembled the regulator on the left in your photo. Did you see a set of contacts in there?
Maybe you just need a new regulator. I know they're not cheap-about $35 or $40 but if it fixes your problem will it be worth that much to you?

This is and always 12V. I would like to move away from voltage stabilizer to something less problematic.

pics:

also, the newer looking stabilizer , when I took it apart, there's just a flat piece of metal connecting the 2 sides....nothing mechanical about it....no resistance, just straight 0 on an ohm meter. That thing just pegs 12 v. See pics. The cluster is new, purchased from this site, as is the temp sender, and fuel sender. Fuel sender worked up to last week when I tried to fix the temp guage.

Dan in PA


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What year was your 4200 built? That looks like a late model instrument panel and I'm sure that Bern or RodinNS has posted here before that the late model instruments use different sending units. Maybe you're trying to use a late model panel with early model sending units and they are not compatible.
Hopefully Bern, RodinNS or one of the old Ford mechanics will chime in. In the meantime you may want to go to the NH parts website and start looking up sending units.

Kinda got same problem. Trying to use "new style" fuel sender with OLD cluster. The newer clusters use magnetic gauges instead of what ever they called older ones pre 75. Iv got new stabilizer some where. seen it other day dont remember whitch day.

It's a brand new everything, all purchased from this site.

its more like a voltage chopper than a voltage regulator.. as it chops the voltage into little bits with no voltage in between... so volt meters will go crazy in the dc mode.

some of the new replacement gauges dont require any voltage regulator to work. you just hook up 12volts.

others still require the voltage chopper or voltage dropping device.

the little piece of metal is a relay contact that allows voltage to go through it. the metal heats up a bit and bends as it gets warm and bends to the point that the contact opens... so the voltage stops going through it and it cools down.. as it cools down, it closes the contacts and lets the voltage start flowing again... so its a vibrator of sorts that open and closes very fast.. the average voltage is then lowered to the gauges.

you need to see which set of gauges you have.. the ones that run off 12 volts or the ones that run of of the lowered voltage.

good luck.. bill

That little devil cost me a few hard days work,,, the info on how it worked was right in front of me. There were a few customer issues that made matters worst like man made dead shorts.

Not long ago I posted a reply to this same issue on iatn.net,,, my take and others


Just to clarify the function of the voltage regulator used
on a Ford. Its can be misleading to say it limits the
voltage to the gauge.( I once mislead my thinking that way)
It averages the voltage to the gauge by switching on and off
much like a turn signal flasher. It does not convert 12V to
5V are limit the out put to 5V,,, its on on off time should
average around 5V. (will change depending on the position of
the sender input) If it were on for 1 second at 12V and off
for one second 0V then the average would be 6V. if you put a
constant 12V to a ford gauge it will go up in smoke rather
fast. I have a 2 day degree in how the voltage regulator
works,,,, if only I would have took the time to read zackly
what the repair manual stated :0(,,, well I did after I
hooked up a scope and it hit me when I saw the pattern on
the screen,,, my DVOM lead me astray look'n for 5V on the
gauge side of the regulator. Its possible the regulator was
the original slosh module

reply

You are correct. The limiter is on about 50% of the time and
averages out to about 5 volts or so. A bad ground at the IVR
will send a constant 12 volts to the gauges and fry them.

It is a circuit breaker with a heating coil somewhat like a
type II breaker. However, the heating coil is not wired
across the breaker points but on the device side of the
breaker and goes to ground. It is amazing how long they last
with all the making and breaking of the contact points.

someone else jumps in with a problem

I'm glad I found this discussion. I have a 78 grand marq.
here and I was just pondering how the gauge lost it's
calibration. It reads over full @ 10 ohms sender output, and
1/4 gauge @ 80 ohms or above. It won't go below 1/4 when the
tank is empty. I started to think the ip regulator went bad
but the customer had replaced the cluster already, so unless
it's a common failure they both do the same thing. The one
I'm measuring is out of the car and on the bench, and I'm
using a sender that is out also. I'm thinking I will try to
limit the current by changing the timing of the bimetal
regulator. Any thoughts?

now we git another to take the bait

If you look in the back of the gauge there should be a hole
and what looks like gear teeth. You can use a small screw
driver to move these. There is one that controls the "Zero"
of the gauge normally toward the "E" side. The one on the
other side contols the second bimetal strip that temperature
compensates the gauge. You probably don't want to fool with
that one. Move the one on the "E" side to get the needle to
read empty when the sending unit is at empty. Based on your
comments that should give you a full reading when the
sending unit is at the full stop.

and his fix (wink wink) the base of the regulator needs to have a good ground are you will smoke it (found out the hard way)

Thanks for the time Joe, In reading one of your earlier
posts I found that I neglected the vr ground. With this
ground in place the gauge on the bench works as I would
expect. I figure it was getting too much on time.

Some more talk about the difference in gauge types that may help under stand what ford used the Voltage regulator (the original slosh module)

No, the old Mustangs had thermal electric gauges and you are
referring to the constant voltage regulator that limits the
current to the bimetal strips in the gauge. I'm pretty sure
the Buick has ballanced coil gauges; no thermal strips to
move the needle. It uses one fixed magnetic field and one
that varies to move the needle. The sending unit is attached
to the field that varies.

It has been my experience that many older cars did this. My
58 Impala I had in high school did (1964) and the 57 Ford
that I now have does the same. One car had balanced coil
gauges and the other has thermal electric gauges. When I
accelerate or go up hill I have less fuel, going down the
needle heads to full. The only way I know to prevent this is
baffles in the tank.

If the needle is really jumping around, you may have a bad
ground at the tank or bad spots on the resistor strip in the
sending unit.

Good job, as usual, HOBO!

Thanks,,, one thing to remember is a DVOM on the volts (DC) set'n will not catch the switching of the IR,,, a analog meter will but all you will see is the swing of the needle and not B able to calculate the voltage (Forget the 5V reference term,,, look for the switching of the IR). One think that will tip you off is the pattern of the on/off effect,,, it should have a constant pattern and not B erratic,,, it somewhat should B like the tic'n of a clock. You can still buy new IR's from the aftermarket BUT none that I have tested work as good as a original. I suspect any IR off a car/truck/tractor will work. Ford used these up into the 80's across the board. Fuel gages can B very sensitive,,, I spec the IR was used to damp'n that effect (slosh module, fuel slosh'n around in the tank) ,,, if one looks real close at the gauge you can see it tic just a tad,, look for a rhythm to the tic. I highly recommend a dedicated ground B added to the base of the IR. Back to the aftermarket IR,,, none I checked with a lab scoop had a rhythm to the on/off of the IR,,, they were all over the place. The on/off time will change depending on the position of the fuel sender BUT should have a in sync rhythm to it. Forget the 5V reference term,,, look for the switching of the IR.

Just like a ignition coil the IR can B regulated with a resistor to adjust for gauge accuracy if need B,,, I don't think the gauge are IR care wither its 6 are 12V,,, I have used a 12V gauge and IR on a 6v system used with a VR1 are a 28 ohm resistor,,, have not had a 6V set up to play with.

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I am not sure what you are meaning by IR. I would guess the R is for regulator but the I is what I don't understand.

Your above post, will that apply to my 1974 4000?

I book mark posts such as yours so when I develop a problem with my tractor I have a good place to start researching information to correct my problem.
Thanks to all of you guys that post your knowledge here.

Instrument regulator

(quoted from post at 18:54:18 09/13/09) Instrument regulator

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That makes since now. Thanks