4400 Rear Wheels

Rick from NC · Jun 25, 2009

Rear wheels from my '66 4400. I believe the left rim & center are original and the right one-piece is a later replacement. Both rims are 12 x 24. I'm know I'm being to picky for a work tractor but I'd like to swap one or the other so they match. What are the odds of finding one or the other and someone willing to trade?

I'm gonna trash the tires since they are too slick to reuse. These are 16.9-24 which I believe are two sizes larger than what should be on a 12" rim. I was thinking of dropping down to 14.9-24 R1's. Should this be a safe choice?

RodinNS · Jun 25, 2009

The one on the right is newer; probably from the mid-80's onward. There would be a date code on it somewhere...
It's also the stronger of the two by far, or at least the square center is far stronger. If I was trading I'd be rid of the older one. I would suspect that this tractor got a new wheel at some point in time because someone broke a center, and it got this one because of a muff up in ordering or the astronomical price of the older style. The last ones I did... I got the wheel AND center for about the same money as the center alone of the old style. That was a no brainer to me...
I think I'd stay with the 16.9-24 tho. A 14.9-24 is a lot less tire. I think you'll find the 16.9-24 is an R4 or industrial tread that probably has a bit different profile... but a 14.9-24 R1 is a lot smaller tire.

You might find that a switch to 16.9-30 R1 is the easiest if you want an R1 tread. It's also the correct size for the 4400....

Rod

Rick from NC · Jun 26, 2009

Thanks for the reply Rod. The old tires are R4 type but I was really wanting to change to an R1 for better traction. I see that some manufacturers do list a 16.9-24 in R1 as well as R4's. But in both cases the recommended rim is 15" wide.

I've read on the board in the past to never go more than one tire size above what is recommended for the rim. Since my rims are 12" wide the recommended tire size in the catalogs is 13.6-24 which seems really small for a tractor this size.

I may try to stick with the 16.9-24 but in an R1.

RodinNS · Jun 26, 2009

A 12" wheel was made for a 12" tire in the old measurements but in newer section measurements that translates to a 13.6. You could easily move up to a 14.9 without any issues but a 16.9 will cause the tire to wrap in somewhat. It's probably not a big issue if you aren't loading it heavy and making it pull.

Rod

Shetland Sheepdog · Jun 26, 2009

I worked on a farm that had 5 different 4000 SU's from 1971 to 1974 plus 3 or 4 4600 SU's. They ALL came new with 12x24 wheels AND 16.9x24 tires (it was just something that Ford did back then)! The 1973 had the fixed wheels (picture on right) while all the others had the adjustable wheels (picture on left). They are still running some of them 25 years later with that wheel and tire combination AND no problems!! My suspision is that the fixed center wheels are cheaper and would be found on a tractor that didn't require as much adjustment flexibility. The fixed center wheels will give you a tread width of 60 inches dished in and a tread width of 72 inches dished out. the adjustable center wheels can be adjusted in 4 inch steps from 56 inches to 78 inches, (if memory serves). HTH. Oh yeah, one other thing! They NEVER had a wheel failure with either type of wheel!

Here's a picture of a 16.9x24 tire on a 12x24 rim

Edit addendum, these tires were ALL R-1's AND these tractors WORKED hard! (Plowing, discing, pulling trailers with 5 ton loads, orchard spraying, etc.)
Another thought -- If you want the fixed center wheel, you will probably find it quicker on a light industrial (like a 515 or similar). I would think that you are more likely to find the adjustable wheel on an ag tractor!

RodinNS · Jun 26, 2009

I've never broken the 24, 28 or 30" centers but I've broken both 34" centers I had along with one of my neighbours breaking one of his... but those are getting closer to 20 tonne gross loads with T-Rail duals.
Rest assured, they will break.
The newer square centers are about twice the thickness and less prone to cracking.

Rod

Rick from NC · Jun 26, 2009

(quoted from post at 16:18:44 06/26/09) I worked on a farm that had 5 different 4000 SU's from 1971 to 1974 plus 3 or 4 4600 SU's. They ALL came new with 12x24 wheels AND 16.9x24 tires (it was just something that Ford did back then)! The 1973 had the fixed wheels (picture on right) while all the others had the adjustable wheels (picture on left). They are still running some of them 25 years later with that wheel and tire combination AND no problems!! My suspision is that the fixed center wheels are cheaper and would be found on a tractor that didn't require as much adjustment flexibility. The fixed center wheels will give you a tread width of 60 inches dished in and a tread width of 72 inches dished out. the adjustable center wheels can be adjusted in 4 inch steps from 56 inches to 78 inches, (if memory serves). HTH. Oh yeah, one other thing! They NEVER had a wheel failure with either type of wheel!

Here's a picture of a 16.9x24 tire on a 12x24 rim

Edit addendum, these tires were ALL R-1's AND these tractors WORKED hard! (Plowing, discing, pulling trailers with 5 ton loads, orchard spraying, etc.)
Another thought -- If you want the fixed center wheel, you will probably find it quicker on a light industrial (like a 515 or similar). I would think that you are more likely to find the adjustable wheel on an ag tractor!

Thanks for your reply! I was just looking at the 4400 sales brochure and saw that the 14.9-24 tire was standard and the 16.9-24 tire was optional but if you look through parts manual the widest 24" rim available was the 12". Maybe the one tire size larger rule doesn't apply when you get down to a 24" tire. Thanks again for the information.

Shetland Sheepdog · Jun 26, 2009

(quoted from post at 21:15:36 06/26/09) I've never broken the 24, 28 or 30" centers but I've broken both 34" centers I had along with one of my neighbours breaking one of his... but those are getting closer to 20 tonne gross loads with T-Rail duals.
Rest assured, they will break.
The newer square centers are about twice the thickness and less prone to cracking.

Rod

One other BIG difference is that the old centers were cast iron and the newer ones are pressed steel! The other Big factor is that we never had occasion to run duals. I can readily understand where clamp-on duals would put way more than twice as much strain on the wheel centers!

RodinNS · Jun 26, 2009

I'm not talking cast iron. I'm talking pressed steel with more than a few points of carbon. They just wern't up to the job of what a 7710 could throw at them.....

Rod

Shetland Sheepdog · Jun 26, 2009

(quoted from post at 22:05:23 06/26/09) I'm not talking cast iron. I'm talking pressed steel with more than a few points of carbon. They just wern't up to the job of what a 7710 could throw at them.....

Rod

Okay, I'm with you on that. I guess what confused me was when you said (at least I thought you did) that the non adjustable wheel was way stronger! (the adjustable wheel pictured on the left has the cast center!) Of course the other factor is we're talking a 50 horse tractor not an 85 horse tractor.

RodinNS · Jun 27, 2009

Mabey I'm wrong, but as far as I can tell both of those wheels are pressed. I think they're actually spring steel...
I'd also expect the non-adjustable to be stronger... but as you say, it probably doens't matter much on a 50 horse tractor.

Rod

Charlie in Southern · Jun 30, 2009

Yeah, that rim on the left is the old type. That center will never break, but the loops that attach the center to the rim can wear and break and its hard to keep them tight once they've started having trouble. You want rims like the one on the right... not like your going to be cultivating or anything where you need adjustment on a 4400 anyway.

4400 Rear Wheels

Rick from NC

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Shetland Sheepdog

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