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800 GAS PROBLEMS

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WILL T

08-12-2004 19:36:34

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WHY SO MANY PROBLEMS AND VAPLOR LOCK ON THESE TRACTORS I FOUND ONE BUT I DON,T KNOW IF I WANT IT
ANY HELP / THANKS

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9n141

08-13-2004 20:36:13

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Re: 800 GAS PROBLEMS in reply to WILL T, 08-12-2004 19:36:34

We have several 800s, a 960 a 740 and several 600s. This problem is easily fixed by using a properly installed gas line (we use brake lining). BURT.

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Dave H (NY)

08-13-2004 10:52:41

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Re: 800 GAS PROBLEMS in reply to WILL T, 08-12-2004 19:36:34

I remember back when I was playing with hot rods that we used to refer to vapor lock with the old cars which many times was simply the fuel perculating in the fuel line and you simply did not have the proper fuel mixture when it was boiling, one of the things we used to do was add a cool can in the fuel line that was simply wht looked like a coffee can with a fuel line wound around inside of it and we would put ice in the can to cool the fuel before it went to the carb, if it solved the problem you were sure it was a vapor lock or perculation problem so then you could either reroute the fuel line or leave the can in the fuel line and keep it cold.

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PhillipM

08-13-2004 13:16:15

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Re: 800 GAS PROBLEMS in reply to Dave H (NY), 08-13-2004 10:52:41

We took it one step further and dumped ice on the intake to really get a cool mixture.

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Dave H (NY)

08-13-2004 13:48:06

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Re: 800 GAS PROBLEMS in reply to PhillipM, 08-13-2004 13:16:15

You're right I forgot about the ice on the intake, that worked also

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MikeIA

08-13-2004 10:35:43

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Re: 800 GAS PROBLEMS in reply to WILL T, 08-12-2004 19:36:34

I had a problem with my 960...on hot days, it would miss until I pulled the choke out halfway. I took the fuel line off and threaded it though a piece of 3/4" flexible conduit (armored cable) to act as a heat shield.
That seems to have solved the problem.

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Ross

08-13-2004 10:29:48

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Re: 800 GAS PROBLEMS in reply to WILL T, 08-12-2004 19:36:34

Unless someone has a restriction in the line, as in plugged filter, and the fuel draw empties the bowl and down she goes. Then a few minutes later enough fuel has dribbled down the line to fill the bowl and away she goes again.
Wayne...When the "vapor lock" shuts her down will she restart in a few or do you bleed a line?

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Wayne in Iowa

08-13-2004 05:03:08

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Re: 800 GAS PROBLEMS in reply to WILL T, 08-12-2004 19:36:34

I think you will find that an 800 will vapor lock BUT,if you keep the cooling system clean(in ternally and externally), have no cracks in the exhaust manifold,and run the fuel line directly from the tank to the carberator, the new fuel line from NH does just that. You probably won't experience a vapor problem.In my opinion, the 800 is still one of the most dependable tractors around. I've had on since 1964

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Ian in Tennessee

08-13-2004 09:54:39

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Re: 800 GAS PROBLEMS in reply to Wayne in Iowa, 08-13-2004 05:03:08

Wayne, would you happen to know the part number on that fuel line & whether it's the same for a 640? Is it supposed to be an improvement on the original equipment? I just picked a new one up from NH and would like to be sure it's the best available before I crack the packaging. It's shaped very similar to a paint roller. (part # NCA9282B)

Thanks.

Ian

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Wayne in Iowa

08-13-2004 17:17:29

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Re: 800 GAS PROBLEMS in reply to Ian in Tennessee, 08-13-2004 09:54:39

Just bought a new fuel line from NH for my 900 2 days ago . The invoice lists the part number as 86593249 Price is $65.51 It has a short end of rubber hose on the top end which bend and goes down between the manifold and head to the sediment bowl.I think this application will fit all 6-7-8and900 tractors from 1955 thru 1957. A not from personal experience. Back in the late 60s and early 70s when I picked several 100 acres of corn every year with a mounted Ford picker on this 900 we would have a vapor lock problem .Early in the season you might get a day or two of 60 degree weather. This created a problem. With the picker serounding the tractor , the fan tended to draw air from around the engine,thus heating the gas in the tank.Adding 3 or 4 gallons of cool gas would help.Sorry for being long winded

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Ian in Tennessee

08-13-2004 17:50:52

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Re: 800 GAS PROBLEMS--Thanks, Wayne in reply to Wayne in Iowa, 08-13-2004 17:17:29

Wayne,

I appreciate the reply. If it does fit a 640, I'll have to see if NH will take the one I got from them today back on a trade.

I'm not sure vapor lock is my problem, but it does sputter and stall under load. I think the fuel flow is restricted, it just seems to dribble out when the hose is removed from the sediment bowl. In either case a new fuel line is overdue for this thing.

I sent you a separate note, cause i didn't know if you'd see this one. Many thanks for getting back with me on it.

Ian

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Gil

08-13-2004 09:24:33

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Re: 800 GAS PROBLEMS in reply to Wayne in Iowa, 08-13-2004 05:03:08

How can it be possible for vapor to block a vertical hose? The fuel supply is higher than the carburetor, there is no fuel pump, and air is lighter than gasoline, so the vapor would rise and the liquid would fall. I just don't see it.

Gil

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john in la

08-13-2004 10:00:57

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Re: 800 GAS PROBLEMS in reply to Gil, 08-13-2004 09:24:33

The problem is the tube restricts the flow of the air in it. Try this..... ..
Suck a liquid up into a straw with a air bubble. Watch the air bubble. It is enclosed in the straw and can not go up or down with out the liquid moving. The straw restricts the flow of the air because it can not break into small enough bubbles to pass the liquid in the straw.

Now think about a fuel line. It is like a straw and will restrict the flow also. It is not true vertical either. It has bends and if you notice it is not all ways going down hill. It mat go down and then bend up to go around a object then back down. As long as the outlet is lower than the fuel level in tank a liquid will flow. Think of a siphon hose here. The air on the other hand will be traped in the high point and does not want to flow down hill in the tube be that to the tank or the carb and we now have what is called vapor lock.

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Gil

08-13-2004 21:03:29

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Re: 800 GAS PROBLEMS in reply to john in la, 08-13-2004 10:00:57

John in La, I believe that your analogy does not apply here. Why would the air bubble not rise into the tank? The top of the tube is not sealed, therefore, the liquid could, and does move out of the way. By your analogy if I remove the fuel line from the settling bulb the fuel would not drain out.

The fuel systems on these tractors are about as simple as they get, a tank, line, and carburetor. If the tractor has a problem running, the problem is not vapor lock. In fact, I'd wager that most people don't even know what vapor lock is. I imagine that the actual cause of the poor performance goes undected and because the person can't find the problem, he then says it's vapor lock. Do you really believe that Ford would sell hundred's of thousands of farm tractors that would not perform in the heat of planting seasons, and harvesting seasons?

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john in la

08-14-2004 06:37:13

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Re: 800 GAS PROBLEMS in reply to Gil, 08-13-2004 21:03:29

Well I am not the best to describe how or why some thing happens but I did try.

I think even Ford thinks they have a problem with vapor lock as I think they have a updated and improved fuel line for these tractors.

I would also agree that on these old tractors 50% of fuel problems can be found in the elec. system.

Also by your analogy how can any thing vapor lock. If it is not a free flow system it would be pushed by a pump.

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Geo in SD

08-13-2004 10:38:56

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Re: 800 GAS PROBLEMS in reply to john in la, 08-13-2004 10:00:57

But wouldn't the weight of the fuel above in the tank push the bubble down to the carb anyway?
I don't see how it can vapor lock, either, unless the float valve wouldn't open.
My own experience with a lot of these tractors, and I've never seen one vapor lock. You would think at 100 degrees outside, and working one hard would cause one to lock. I've never had it happen.
Not saying it ain't so, just can't quite believe it yet.

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Gil

08-12-2004 23:05:01

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Re: 800 GAS PROBLEMS in reply to WILL T, 08-12-2004 19:36:34

The 800 series tractors cannot vapor lock. It is impossible for them. The gas tank is higher than the carb, and the fuel is gravity flow. If there was any vapor in the fuel line is would simply rise up through the line and into the tank. But like I said, it's impossible.

Gil

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steveormary

08-13-2004 10:34:03

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Re: 800 GAS PROBLEMS in reply to Gil, 08-12-2004 23:05:01

Oh yes they will vaporlock. It is a built in charateristic of them to keep you from working the tractor too hard and wrecking the engine. Our 850 would do that from time to time and we kept the radiator clean and the tractor properly serviced.

steveormary

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