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Discussion Forum

Re: Warrantys on rebuilt tractor motors

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Al English

03-02-2001 12:21:53

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Hi Rick, The bearings in modern engines don't really need a break-in the way old engines did. It's mostly about the bores and rings. A smooth bore finish and moly rings will break in very fast, seal very well, but won't last as long. At the other extreme are hardened cylinder liners with a relatively rough finish, and chrome plated alloy steel rings. These parts are very durable, but take quite a while to fully break in. You probably don't know exactly what type of liners and rings you have, but they are going to be more to the side of the more durable, slow break-in type of parts. While the rings are seating heat, fire, oil, combuston pressure, etc. are able to leak past the rings. The key is not to load the engine so hard for so long that it causes the rings to overheat. The previous posts contain good advice. The only thing I didn't like the sound of was start the airplane and open the throttle. That's especially bad for an aluminum air cooled engine. Don't baby the engine because it won't break in if you do that. But on the other hand don't over-do it either. After a period of heavier loads idle the engine down & let it cool for a minute or two. Cold starts are hard on any engine, especially a new one, so try to keep these to a minimum. If anyone gives you the old "break it in like you're going to run it" don't listen to them. Just because there is always someone who has gotten by with something doesn't mean it's right. Good luck...Al English

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B Seifert

03-02-2001 18:12:00

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 Re: Re: Warrantys on rebuilt tractor motors in reply to Al English, 03-02-2001 12:21:53  
That Al English seems to know his stuff. Another thing I think is a good idea is to change oil VERY soon. Running a eng. a few minutes after warm up and draining the oil, you would be amazed how much metal you can see in the drained oil. Maybe it doesn't hurt anything but it sure makes me feel better to drain it out. I myself will gamble the cost of a few qts of oil to make the eng last longer. How about it Al! Seif

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Al English

03-02-2001 18:52:33

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 Re: Re: Re: Warrantys on rebuilt tractor motors in reply to B Seifert, 03-02-2001 18:12:00  
Good point Seif, Even when an engine is assembled with perfectly clean parts in a clean room, there will be a lot of contamination in the oil after only a short time. I think most of it comes from the cylinders, some from the pistons and rings, and the rest from everywhere else. It could be argued that the filter will catch it, but even full flow filters often bypass a percentage of the oil. An oil change as Seif describled, then another after a few hours, is the worth the effort an expense. If you visited any top race shop you'd see them doing the same thing. Granted these tractors aren't race engines, but they are subject to the same modes of failure and wear...Al English

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03-02-2001 19:10:18

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Warrantys on rebuilt tractor motors in reply to Al English, 03-02-2001 18:52:33  
Full flow filters will not bypass oil unless they're plugged. The only thing they will bypass is any contamination smaller than their micron rating.

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Al English

03-02-2001 19:56:04

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Warrantys on rebuilt tractor motors in reply to Bern, 03-02-2001 19:10:18  
Hey Bern, Nearly all so-called "full flow" filters have a bypass valve built right into them. And the few that don't rely on a bypass valve located in the engines oiling system. Many of the in-filter bypass valves are so poorly made they leak from the day they are new. You would be surprised, or maybe horrified, to know how little filter area there is in even a good filter. A percentage of the oil is routinely bypassed around the filter. After a little contamination has been filtered there is even less flow area available. When oil is cold it is thicker and less willing to pass through the filter. As a result, almost none of the oil is filtered when the engine is cold. Some industrial engines actually have a second "Bypass Filter" that filters the oil being bypassed by the main FULL FLOW filter. You would be amazed how much stuff these bypass filters catch. Stuff that would otherwise have gone on it's way into the engine. I used to work on engines that actually relied on bypassed oil for secondary lubrication within the engine. If you were referring to the old style bypass filters that filtered only a few percent of the engines total oil flow than yes, a full flow filter is much better, but the term full flow filter has given people a slanted view of what's really going on. Sorry I took so long to make my point...Al English

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B Seifert

03-03-2001 19:29:33

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Warrantys on rebuilt tractor motors in reply to Al English, 03-02-2001 19:56:04  
Al you took the words right out of my mouth. A bypass in an oil filter is important. Especially on a cold eng. (winter time). Cold oil can not possibly go through a filter fast enough. This is when the bypass valve has to open. Bern is right on talking about the media rating inside the filter. Some filters will filter out smaller particles (measured in microns). I have cut apart many filters through the years. There are vast differences in type and amount of filtering media inside. Which ones are best? Most brands make several diff. quality filters. Maybe it's possible to get the specs on filters, don't know. If we could, would we understand or be able to know what is best. Still sounds like Al really knows his stuff. Oh YA! what was the ? something about rebuilt motors!!!! Seif

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03-02-2001 21:35:02

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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Warrantys on rebuilt tractor motors in reply to Al English, 03-02-2001 19:56:04  
Hmmm... you may be right about some of the lesser quality filters, but I would not expect that out of a Fleetguard filter. I have seen those filters sectioned before and have been impressed with their construction.

I do not have the Fleetguard manual in front of me, but most of those bypass valves are set at a fairly high pressure differential so as not to bypass unless there is a serious blockage. I don't think a company with the reputation that Fleetguard has could afford to make a filter that is as bad as you describe. I guess it all boils down to: you get what you pay for.

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