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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
:

23C Diesel Glow Plug Resistor

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supergrumpy

01-01-2012 09:46:54




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trying to find stock glow plug resistor that goes under the dash and keeps glow plugs from going up in smoke

somebody rewired glow plugs on this engine to put all 4 of them in parallel, as wired they draw 160 amps, wiring smokes and setup draws lots of power away from the starter

I am trying to return wiring to having all 4 plugs in series, resistor currently on the tractor has too high a resistance, cannot locate this part at dealer or online

thank you in advance for any leads

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LJD

01-02-2012 08:19:14




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 Direct fit NGK 8 volt plug in reply to supergrumpy, 01-01-2012 09:46:54  
If you don't want to make adapters, the NGKs that are 8 volt and direct fit are $16 each. Maybe cheaper if you search around.

http://www.sparkplugdepot.com/cgi-bin/search_world.cgi?terms=Y-402-2&site=world



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LJD

01-02-2012 08:14:13




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 $2 plugs at Amazon if you make adapters in reply to supergrumpy, 01-01-2012 09:46:54  
The reason why some of these older tractors use low voltage plugs wired in series is because they do not use electronic controllers to protect them. They heat very slow and if one blows, the others stop getting power.

If you install high voltage plugs, you can wire in parallel but . . have to be careful not to heat for more then 12 seconds at a time. That is . . . unless you add a controller. Mercedes sells controller kits to update the old 190D cars that orginally has the same type system you have.

If it was mine, I'd make threaded adapters and convert to 10 mm glow plugs. I did it to both my Allis Chalmers ED40s years ago (same 23C engine).
Easy to do, Take a piece of bolt with the M14 threads and drill a hole in the middle and tap to 10 mm.

Either way, I'd install the higher voltage plugs in parallel and get rid of the series-resistor system.

Your system used both batteries at 12 volts,not just one at 6 volts.

If you are using the AN1050R0 plugs - you've got the old engine with 14 mm glow plugs. Same plug as used in old British Land Rovers. Champion sells as a CH45. You can use a higher voltage plug with the same threads and wire parallel. Or - make adapters and bush down to 10 mms and use cheaper 12 volt plugs - again - wired in parallel.

If you stay with the 14 mm size you have now - not many options. An NGK Y-402-2 has the same M14 threads and is rated at 8 volts instead of 1.7 volts. That you can wire in parallel but have to be careful how long you hold them on.

The best way to do it is to make adapter bushings. Then use one of the following 10 mm plugs. Nissan uses this plugs. Later 23C also use 10 mm plugs in parallel. Delphi-Lucas HDS239. 12 volt system and operates at 11 volts. Beru GV889, Bosch 0250 202 014, Champion CH102, NGK Y-112M-1

The NGKs are $2 each at Amazon. For that price - it's no big deal if you burn one out once in awhile.

http://www.amazon.com/NGK-Y112M1-Glow-Plug-Pack/dp/B002FUVF9S

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supergrumpy

01-02-2012 10:08:45




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 Re: $2 plugs at Amazon if you make adapters in reply to LJD, 01-02-2012 08:14:13  
just ordered all 3 NGK Y112m1 they had, good winter project here, $2 a pop lot easier to deal with than $45 a pop

question on making the adapter - the glow plug I have has a tapered shoulder about 1 inch from the end with the coils, this appears to be the sealing surface that bottoms down in the cylinder head, I can match that angle on my lathe

BUT, how far can the new plug extend into the head? I should be able to control that depth with adapter lenth or a locking nut

I think the plug sticks into the Ricardo chamber and not into the cylinder itself

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LJD

01-02-2012 14:37:05




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 Re: $2 plugs at Amazon if you make adapters in reply to supergrumpy, 01-02-2012 10:08:45  
With your original glow plug - the heating tip extends 18.5 mm beyond the threaded part of the glow plug. So 18.5 mm into the precombustion chamber (about 3/4"). Stick to that figure and seems you'll be fine.



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John(UK)

01-02-2012 12:24:03




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 Re: $2 plugs at Amazon if you make adapters in reply to supergrumpy, 01-02-2012 10:08:45  
The Heater Plug would only go into the Combustion Chamber and not into the Cylinder itself, so you should not have a problem with that...John(UK)



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Alont

01-02-2012 06:02:59




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 Re: 23C Diesel Glow Plug Resistor in reply to supergrumpy, 01-01-2012 09:46:54  
On my son in laws 434 the ignition switch first
position clockwise brings on warning lights, then against spring pressure the glow plugs are fed in series from the ignition switch to the resistor/indicator on the dash on to the glow plugs in series to ground/block,
When the resistor/indicator glows further turn of the ignition operates the starter and the engine starts.
Releasing the key allows the spring to take it back to the "Ignition ON first position.

Hope this helps and does not confuse


Alont

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supergrumpy

01-02-2012 04:23:47




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 Re: 23C Diesel Glow Plug Resistor - more info in reply to supergrumpy, 01-01-2012 09:46:54  
the glow plugs are KLG - model GF210T, markings say "1.7v 40A", I bot a spare plug off this site and it says " AN1050R0 1.7v 1k", resistance on it at room temp is nil so I think it will also draw 40 amps

will those higher voltage 10v plugs fit my 23C?????

on the tractor I can see the factory series wiring plus the added wiring to change the plugs over to parallel

If I turn key switch to the right I get the starter, to the left just a bit the glow plugs light up, if I turn the key a bit more to the left I get plugs plus starter, in this position the tractor starts the best BUT the glow plug wiring smokes and that big voltage drain from the plugs cuts down on power available to the starter

original pics show 2 6v batteries, one under the hood and other back by the fender, I wonder if they ran original glow plugs off one 6v battery and fed 12v starter from both batteries

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Bill Brox

01-02-2012 02:44:10




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 Re: 23C Diesel Glow Plug Resistor in reply to supergrumpy, 01-01-2012 09:46:54  
I have heard some have used a Nissan 12 volt plug, but no idea if it is true and what kind of Nissan plugs.

And no idea about the resistor either.


Bill



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LJD

01-01-2012 17:31:44




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 Early of late 23C engine? in reply to supergrumpy, 01-01-2012 09:46:54  
Is it an early or late 23C engine? Early glow plugs were wired in series an only rated to run at 2 volts. Glow plug threads are M14 X 1.25 mm.

Later engines came factory wired in parallel and the plugs are rated at 10 volts. M10 X 1 mm. threads.

Before you start figuring for a resistor, you need to know which type of plugs you're using. The later 10 volt plugs wired in parallel draw around 8 amps each.

The British IH tractors as somebody else mentioned use plugs that only run at 9/10ths of a volt each.

If an early engine with M14 X 1.25 mm plugs, you can use the standard low voltage plugs in series with a resistor - or replace with high voltage plugs wired in parallel with no resistor (like a NGK Y-402-2 rated at 8 volts or a Delphi HDS806 rated at 11 volts).

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Indiana Ken

01-01-2012 16:53:25




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 Re: 23C Diesel Glow Plug Resistor in reply to Jerry/MT, 01-01-2012 09:46:54  
I am curious; have you considered wiring a pair of glow plugs in parallel and then connecting the two pairs in series. Wired in this manner you should draw approximately 40 amps without an additional resistor in the circuit.

This would put 20 amps across each glow plug which is similar to what my Ford diesel runs. At 160 amps you say the wiring smokes - I am sure the glow plugs are smoking also.

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supergrumpy

01-02-2012 04:38:39




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 Re: 23C Diesel Glow Plug Resistor in reply to Indiana Ken, 01-01-2012 16:53:25  
hey, if my drawing is correct that wiring setup lets me use my existing resistor and should cut the amp drain by 50%



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Tony in Mass.

01-01-2012 16:30:32




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 Re: 23C Diesel Glow Plug Resistor in reply to supergrumpy, 01-01-2012 09:46:54  
Sam is on the right track, those models he mentioned I think have British engines too. Maybe - most likely? Lucas made these resistors. I'm sure as soon as they read this, UKJohn and Rich in Indiana will sort you out, but I do know this.... the glow plug should be one side of the switch, the starter the other- not both on at the same time. someone might have wired this wrong before you got there. That might be all your troubles right there, FEMA might have a wiring diagram for the diesels too... check it out....

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supergrumpy

01-02-2012 04:44:37




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 Re: 23C Diesel Glow Plug Resistor in reply to Tony in Mass., 01-01-2012 16:30:32  
what is "FEMA", search came up with some govt agency

I think your mosquito smoker uses the old style "thermostart" heater in intake manifold



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Tony in Mass.

01-02-2012 07:18:06




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 Re: 23C Diesel Glow Plug Resistor in reply to supergrumpy, 01-02-2012 04:44:37  
Oh...aghh... that stands for ..agh... Ferguson enthralled guys of Manitoba and Alberta...
If that doesn't work, try F-E-N-A. Better pictures on that site anyway....
And I was thinking back last night, when I first tried the glow plugs on mine, the age old crud under the dash made scary ammounts of smoke and smells until it all burnt off, but keep an eye on what's going on in there. Mine's tach is gone, so looking around in there is easy.

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tractorsam

01-01-2012 15:23:12




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 Re: 23C Diesel Glow Plug Resistor in reply to supergrumpy, 01-01-2012 09:46:54  
I don't know if it will help you at all but many of the small IH diesels use a very similar system (resistor + 4 glow plugs in series). If the glow plugs are a similar resistance (you could probably get some numbers from the Farmall board) then you could use that resistor which is readily available. IH tractors I'm thinking of are B-250, 275, 414, 434 etc. Best of luck, Sam



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supergrumpy

01-02-2012 04:50:11




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 Re: 23C Diesel Glow Plug Resistor in reply to tractorsam, 01-01-2012 15:23:12  
I have a 3414 Intl with that setup, starts like a champion, dash indicator never really glows but she starts right up after say 45 seconds of heat

hate to tear into something that works

not sure where I can find a part number, manuals show how to start it plus some wiring diagrams, maybe a trip over to Randall tractor



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