TO20 Block repairs,,??

Buggyboy · Apr 14, 2021

I thought I had posted this last night but could not find my post anywhere this morning,,?? I have a TO20 Ferguson with the Z120 gas.It had thrown a rod out the side of block and with the help of an older than me welder I did the welding repairs and we tested the block with gasoline from outside in,,then inside out and no seeps either way so I'm confident the repairs will be OK. So, I finally get the block on an engine stand ready to install the crankshaft when I notice the web between liner #1 and liner #2 AND the web between liner #3 and liner #4,,,WHAT,,,???
Aw MAN,,,I am beyond knowing what to do,,,!!
I am positive this isn't the first Ferguson block that this has happened to and am praying that somebody here has a repair method. This was to be my Parade Tractor and will not be doing any heavy farm work.
Can this be repaired or is the block junk?????

Old Ford Mechanic · Apr 14, 2021

With that damage in that area i would be looking for a used engine or, at least a usable block.

Buggyboy · Apr 14, 2021

Well,,Old Ford Machanic,,Many THANKS for your quick response,,,I was afraid of such a response but being a sort of a tightwad and quite Frugal,,,,Do you know if anybody ever tryed to drill about a 1/4 hole straight down into the web and then fill with some of JB Weld's latest Pure Metal Epoxy,,,? The one issue might be the pourability of the stuff,,?? What do you think?

Duner Wi · Apr 14, 2021

Yes, the Z series engines, Z120 and Z129 in particular tend to crack in the webs between the cylinders. When this occurs on the top it is not a major problem, and can be sealed with a new head gasket sprayed with Copper Coat, and properly torqued to factory specifications.

If the block is cracked between the bottom webs the cracks usually extend into the main bearing mounts. Repairs to the bottom cracks can include bolting, welding, and stitching.

Above info from another site. I just copy and paste. You should be able to find pictures of bolted blocks if you look long enough. Good luck!

Bruce(OR) · Apr 15, 2021

Your located where?
I had a TE-20 a few years ago that the block was pinned. I believe it was (4) 1/4 inch bolts between the top and bottoms of the center cylinders.
Run the bolt out the far side, Apply high strength lock tight, run the nut down, cut off the stud, let dry and apply paint.

Buggyboy · Apr 15, 2021

Hey Bruce(OR),,Hey Thanks for the info . Does anybody know if there is water circulating THRU the webs between the liners? I'm seriously thinking bout drilling a 1/4 hole thru the web from bottom to the top and filling with JB Weld's new metal epoxy,,,? Now, It might just be glorified snake oil,,,,but you gotta start somewhere..?
Another question for the group,,, Were any of these repairs followed up with a pressurized test of about 15 pounds of the cooling system? Thanks for all ya'lls help,,,,,,

Bruce(OR) · Apr 15, 2021

Why would you pressure test a 4 PSI system to 15 PSI? Yes, the cylinders are liquid cooled. I have heard that filling the block with sealant is a good trick for the race track. Not so good on most any other engines. After you pin the block, it might still be advisable to use a can of Block Seal.
Once again,
Your located where?

J.Wondergem · Apr 15, 2021

Bruce, modern view says he's in New Mexico.

Buggyboy · Apr 15, 2021

OOOPs slips Bruce(OR) I totally missed your question,,,I live in SE New Mexico, I used the 15# figure as a 1 1/2 times operating pressure,,I believe the tractor had a 10# radiator cap on it when I got it.

Tom H. · Apr 15, 2021

So you need your block pinned. It really is a simple (machine shop helps) repair. Holes are drilled from the right side of the engine across the top of the bottom webs and tap the inside of the left side of the engine to accept the bolt, I believe 5/6 or3/8 bolt. So three holes and tapped holes. When the bolts are tightened you have a mechanical closing and holding of the cracks. You wont get that with JB weld. I wish I had pictures of the completed jobs, but, I was always in a hurry to get these engines back up and never stopped to take any.

Look up block pinning in the archives you may find others who have.

So after everything is put back together put coolant sealer in your radiator this will help seal the now small cracks and you could have a great engine again.

Tom

Bruce(OR) · Apr 15, 2021

SE New Mexico. . .
Truth or Consequences.
OH! South East!
Hobbs.
No? Further north? Portales? Oh! Clovis.

How many times have you been to Carlsbad Caverns?
No, I know nuttin' about NM. Land of Enchantment or 1001 sunsets.

10 PSI cap was a mistook. Lowest new cap you can find these days is 7 PSI.
Some people remove the rubber seals and go with zero PSI.
Just keep the coolant above the fins inside the rad.

John Deere D · Apr 16, 2021

Check this little monster out..

Pics from YT......
Engine make...?????
Originally seen in the Ferguson Forum

Bob..

Buggyboy · Apr 16, 2021

HEY,,THANKS,,Bob,,!! Now, I got a much clearer picture in my mind of the whole process,,!! I'm gonna start checking the machine shops around here but sad to say,,most of the old timer shops have long gone by the wayside,,,,,,sigh
I had a idee of drilling about a 1/4" hole down into the center of the web and filling with some of JB Weld's latest "All Metal" product,,but if I can find a shop that can do the bolting, that's the way I'd rather go,,,,
I did go thru over 40 pages of the archives here and there are several articles about this problem with the ferguson blocks, but none of them included pics so MANY THANKS,,!!
I also got a few phone numbers of shops that may still do this so I'm gonna start calling but CHIT,,the closest to me is in MO and too far,,,,??

Buggyboy · Apr 16, 2021

I went and looked at my TO20 and how did they do the middle web as the camshaft galley is right there??
On looking at the outside of block, it looks like the bolt for the center web is at same elevation as the other two,,??

John Deere D · Apr 16, 2021

Possibly NOT a Continental Engine.....???

Bob..

Buggyboy · Apr 17, 2021

Hey Tom H,,, I can see what the thinking is on bolting of Block but want to run something by you guys that's been doing this lots longer than me. After careful studying of the process,, the CENTER web is the only one that really needs to be threaded due to it's interference with the camshaft galley. Cannot The two end webs can be drilled straight thru and out the other side with washers and nuts on both ends of SS rod to secure??
I'm not having any luck locating a machine shop that has ever done this ,,,or even wants to try,,!!
I did get some phone numbers from several posts in the Archives of shops that have done this and that may be my only option but freight both ways is gonna be quite expensive from New Mexico to back east,,,,,,

Bruce(OR) · Apr 17, 2021

Back east? Nebraska and Kansas comes to mind fast enough as tractor country. Lubbock or Amarillo might have something. El Paso is also in your neighborhood but Not too many blocks getting pinned in that end of the world. Your phone is your friend. Santa Fe is another possibility to call up. It might also help to contact your local new tractor dealers and inquire therein for a decent machine shop in your end of the world.
Your in Tucumcari?
Your an ENMU graduate?
Catch you later!

Go4Broke2 · Apr 17, 2021

Another option is to get them brazed. My '52 TO30 had lower block cracks brazed long before I bought it 15 years ago. I found out when I pulled the oil pan when I first bought it. I've worked it hard ever since with no problems. There are cracks at the top end as well but as others noted its the lower cracks that are the bad ones that need fixed. There might be a welding shop or even a college close that could help you out.

Buggyboy · Apr 17, 2021

Actually, Bruce,,,,I live north of BULLDOG COUNTRY of Artesia,,,Yea!! There is only one machine shop and he does NOT want to even try and I'm gonna get on the phone prolly Monday morning as there are several shops in the Alien Town (Roswell),,,maybe I'll get lucky,,,,, OH,,and there was AN ALIEN Spaceship that crashed up there in 1947,,,,,,,,,,

Bruce(OR) · Apr 20, 2021

I like the fact that all the space junk that was picked up has now disappeared. It went to some research facility in... Cali? They went bankrupt and all the toys are now gone. Oops. Artesia. Don't sneeze you might miss it? Then again, that was pre 1972. Things might have changed in near 50 years.
Problem you might run into is the lack of frozen engine block repair in Roswell. Like I said, that phone needs to get used and see what turns up.
Have fun with your toy.
Head northeast out of Roswell. That first major bump in the road was the town I was in back in pre-72.
Still the peanut basin of the nation?

Buggyboy · Apr 20, 2021

Yeah, Bruce,,there is quite a story on the Roswell Incident back in 1947,,,and I believe every bit of it! Not that I was there,,,but I could of been as it happened one year after I was born,!! LOL. Let's see,,NE of The Alien Town,,,HMMmmm,,That'd be Ruidoso, right? Beautiful country lots of mountains in the 13,000 Ft elevation and fairly mild winters to boot.
PLUS,,there are 3 casinos there now!! OK,,back to my dear project, I have struck out on finding a good uncracked block or engine and have NOT found a machine shop willing to attempt repairs of any kind on my block. I did find several references in the Archives but they were all old phone numbers, SO,you see,, Bruce,,I HAVE been using my phone so much It smokes from so much use and abuse,, I do have one more avenue with a fellar down south that bought two TO20's sight unseen and was told they were running when parked a few years ago,,,,?? I will pursue fixing a TO20 as I already bought the complete Overhaul kit for a TO20 and would like to take advantage of it.
My next push is to adapt another type of engine into the Ferguson. A Salvage man has suggested a 32 HP 4 cylinder Diesel engine from an industrial mower that might be a candidate,,,,????He started it for me and it is sweet,,,,,,

Tom H. · Apr 21, 2021

Hmmmmm, more Fergusons. It gets to be an addiction. I currently have 9, 4 running, plus an 8n. Have fun and the eBayer used stuff has been great for me for original parts, especially for correct nuts and bolts.

Buggyboy · Apr 21, 2021

Hey Bruce,,I flat had my head up my toolie-wak, I guess,,I was thinking NW of the Alien Town instead of NE,,,Sorry,,NE would be Protales which does STILL have lots of acres in Peanuts,,,

Buggyboy · Apr 21, 2021

Hey Tom,,,,9 Fergusons,,,as in NINE,,,??? Well, I be busy this weekend but have sent the secretary a note to cancel all my imagined appointments for next weekend if you want me to go up and relieve you of a good cylinder block,,,, UMmmm,,,where did you say you lived?

TO20 Block repairs,,??

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