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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum

TEA 20

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Gettin there

03-21-2020 09:36:33

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Hi all haven't been on here in a while still sorta workin on my TEA 20. Had some running problems once I fixed them up like, vacuum in the fuel tank (air hole in fuel cap plugged) replaced fuel/sediment bowl shutoff assembly which old one was impeding fuel flow. Now it doesn't stall out but still sometime have a flooding issue guess carb float is sticking a bit. Now having issues with hydraulic pump.
It worked initially then quit. Just gettin time and tenacity to delve int it.
I removed pump and observed that both valve chambers had damage to them presumably due to condensation/water in oil and froze. One valve chamber had a large piece broke pretty much in center where chamber cap bolt hold the caps on, the other had a tiny piece broken out on one chamber. I've seen the repair videos on Bundy bears shed, but he obviously hasn't experience the dilemma I'm now having.
I decided to purchase a salvage pump as the overhaul kit according to the implement dealer/salvage outlet indicated the overhaul kit which comes with new valve chambers was quite expensive at around $600. I got this pump from a Ferguson, and it doesn't fit. I even swapped the valve chambers to my pump still no go. Apparently, even with replacement valve chambers it's indicated that some grinding of the pump housing may be required to fit. At this point I'm unsure of where exactly that modification might be as I've not removed top cover to facilitate seeing where its hitting. I had the bright idea to attempt a repair with JB Weld and it worked for the most part (worked once then quit) but apparently the smaller piece didn't take and blew out. So back to a second attempt now to heat and melt the JB Weld off and try again.
Only option I have currently other than removing top cover and try to visualize what needs to be done to install salvage pump and or any future replacement valve chamber should it be necessary in the future.
Question however where if possible could one plumb a filter inline with the hydraulic system and what type?

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03-22-2020 03:33:40

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 Re: TEA 20 in reply to Gettin there, 03-21-2020 09:36:33  
I installed the rebuild kit sold here on YT in my 49 TEA20. It didn't fit at first, but with a little judicious grinding on both the valve chambers and the inside of the center casting, it went in. Had to leave out the pressure relief valve during pump installation, then install it later through a side hole. The pump has to go straight up with it positioned several inches back from it's final position, and the PRV was preventing that.

The new valve chambers are both thicker overall, and lack a chamfer on one side that the originals had. My parts book shows the same P/N for TO20, TE20 and TEA20; but the rebuild kit description doesn't mention TEA20. Not sure what's up with that.

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03-21-2020 20:48:09

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 Re: TEA 20 in reply to Gettin there, 03-21-2020 09:36:33  
I have little faith in the JB Weld on the valve chambers.

You're looking at a lot of pressure there, especially on a cold start up.

The numbers on the JB epoxy, the PSI is a compressive strength test, the tensile strength is the "tear apart" strength. Both are done under laboratory test conditions and have no bearing on it's ability to contain hydraulic pressure in an unknown configuration.

I would concentrate on making the good pump, or a combination of the 2 to make 1, fit and work.

As for installing a filter, the filter always goes on the intake of the pump, in the form of a fine screen (I see no way to do that), or on the return to tank (don't really see a way to do that either), but never in the output pressure circuit. Those systems are forgiving, just clean the sump out, keep the water out, and it will be fine.

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Charles in Aus.

03-21-2020 16:03:43

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 Re: TEA 20 in reply to Gettin there, 03-21-2020 09:36:33  
As far as being able to see where the pump you have is fouling taking both side covers off should really be enough and save the trouble of removing the lift cover .
Does the TEA have a Howard reduction box fitted ? These were made for the Howard rotary hoe and can make the inside of the rear case a little tight .

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Charles in Aus.

03-21-2020 15:59:23

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 Re: TEA 20 in reply to Gettin there, 03-21-2020 09:36:33  
What year is your TEA ?
There were really only two main types of pumps fitted,[ as opposed to at least four variations of lift cylinder] , one using gaskets under the chamber heads , the other used O rings . I think that either should fit no matter what the year and so would have to question whether or not your salvage pump is the correct one .
Are you absolutely sure the pump you have is from a UK built Ferguson ?

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03-21-2020 09:56:34

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 Re: TEA 20 in reply to Gettin there, 03-21-2020 09:36:33  
I suspect filtering the hydraulic system could be done with a TO-35 tractor and newer. JB Weld might work if the system didn't develop pressure up around 1200 plus PSI.
Being submerged in oil probably didn't help either. I am not aware of the difference of the TEA versus the TO pumps and cannot comment upon that. A parts manual, you do have one, don't you? That parts manual would give you the applicable part numbers and you could us that for an interchange manual. Removal of the top cover might be a needed process in order to visualize your attempts at a repair.
Best of luck with the JB Weld. I believe it has been said that insanity can be classified as attempting the same thing over and expecting different results.

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Gettin there

03-21-2020 10:16:25

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 Re: TEA 20 in reply to Bruce(OR), 03-21-2020 09:56:34  
Hey Bruce, thanks for the reply. well the larger repair with the JB weld worked for now, I was a little dubious about the fit of the smaller piece as it didn't clamp as well but we'll try again. I have an IT shop manual for a TE 20 not a TEA 20. I actually have or can read numbers on the valve chambers themselves which may be actual part numbers. I've heard and read something about particular units having specific parts within a certain serial number range? That being said when I swapped the salvage pump's valve chambers to my original pump should have fit so modification/grinding requirement must be with the valve chamber casting someplace in order to gain sufficient room to wiggle pump into place, just can't see where from bottom while attempting to install.
I can't see any visible difference both in size of valve chambers or anything else, so it's sorta baffling with my pump and the salvage valve chambers why it doesn't fit?

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Gettin there

03-21-2020 10:45:33

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 Re: TEA 20 in reply to Gettin there, 03-21-2020 10:16:25  
Hi again Bruce, regarding the JB Weld, well just read on my package indicates PSI strength 3960PSI, and it's been claimed that it's been used to repair cracked engine block so there sufficient temperature oil, grease and coolant so...
but google and I get this rating,
J-B Weld™ has a tensile strength of 5020 PSI and sets to a hard bond overnight. It can withstand temperatures up to 550ºF when fully cured.

J-B Weld is water-resistant, petroleum/chemical-resistant (when hardened), and acid-resistant. It also resists shock, vibration, and extreme temperature fluctuations. J-B Weld can withstand a constant temperature of 500 °F (260 °C), and the maximum temperature threshold is approximately 600 °F (316 °C) for 10 minutes.
here's an extreme heat version too.

ExtremeHeat™ is formulated to allow for repairs to iron, steel and metal in high temperature environments (2400°F / 1300°C). When fully cured, this metallic compound can be drilled, machined or sanded. It is great for repairing cracks, small gaps, seam connections or holes in exhaust manifolds, pipe connections, mufflers, catalytic converters, outdoor grills, fire boxes, gas and commercial furnaces and water heaters. This product is water based, non-flammable and contains no solvents or Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs).

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Gettin there

03-23-2020 14:17:58

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 Re: TEA 20 in reply to Gettin there, 03-21-2020 10:45:33  
Hey Bruce it's with great disappointment to report that the JB Weld failed on both valve chambers and i cleaned them good and blew dry and clamped.
I inadvertently had to resort to removing the complete top cover to view from the top, where and how my replacement used pump was gettin hung up. I chose to only swap out the valve chambers as I'd tried before to my pump and attempted to fit.
That's when I saw where (the reports on replacement valve chambers indicate some grinding of the pump housing may be required).
It in my case was the front of the pump just over/under where it sits over the drive assembly. apparently mine may have been ground a little as the replacement used pump didn't have any indication of modification. So I ground a tich more and voila i slid in as before I changed valve chambers very easily if nor easier.
So assembled all and works just ticket y boo now. if I had of known exactly where to make any modifications such as grinding it would have made my ordeal so much easier and less work.
Now on to more fixin on tractor such as gettin my 6 volt chargin system workin with lights or convert to 12v.

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