1952 TO30 lift gets weak after warmed up.

Hi y'all,
Long time lurker, seldom poster. I have a 1952 TO30. I use it mostly for light grading with a scrape blade. Last summer I hooked it to a
6 ft massey ferguson disc. It would lift great as long as the tractor was cold but when it warmed up, the lift would slow down and hardly lift it . It weighs about 750 pounds. Scrape blade a fraction of that. I understand that if I remove the side panel and it is raining hydraulic fluid then I have a leaking lift cylinder, bubbling in the hydraulic fluid, then a weak pump.
First, with these symptoms, which is the more likely case. If it is a leaking lift cylinder then do I hone the cylinder and put in new rings or is there more to it than that? If the problem is lower then would a pump rebuild be in order or would just a leaking valve. Just trying to get an idea as to what I am up against. Any body had these symptoms and what was the fix. Thanks for your help.
 
I believe, and you better check this, the TO-20 and the TO-30 share the same hydraulic system. Now if they are the same, you will find the Ford NAA piston has a better designed piston the hydraulic system. Honing it out is not a great option due to the ocean wave wear inside the cylinder. So an NAA piston with the new cylinder should work better than OEM.
 
First, tell us what fluid you have in the reservoir and if it is to the proper level. Is it milky?
 
I wouldn't think anything on the NAA hydraulic system would interchange with the TO-30...? I'd be interested to know if I'm wrong.
 
The ford 9N and the 2N Hyd systems are identical to the Fergy TO-20.
The TO-20 is supposed to be the same as the TO-30
The NAA piston is an upgrade on the Ford systems.
That NAA piston will fit the TO-20.
Least wise it better fit.
I have had one in her TO-20 for about 10 years now.
 
I believe the fluid is gl1-90w.The level is up to the lower hole on the side panel. I have always kept the tractor under a shed and has never been rained on. The color of the fluid is like the day I put it in it, about 4 years ago.
If anything, I understand that 90w is considered too thick for cold conditions, but here in E. NC that is not a problem.
You can see the disc pulsating when it the tractor is warm and will slowly lift when I advance the throttle, makes me think that it is the pump.Thanks
 

One other cause of fluid raining down from the top of the lift cover is the top joint of the hydraulic lift pipe. Look at the top RHS corner to confirm the source as this . This is sealed with[b:b9b26a49a8] O[/b:b9b26a49a8] rings that sometimes burst . Replacing them can solve the trouble instantly .
 
Thanks,I plan on taking it into the shop in a few weeks. Before that, I will pull the side panel and have a look see. Hopefully the fix is
going to be obvious. At any rate, I enjoy tinkering on it. Thank you for your help, Rick
 
I hooked up to the disc today and ran the tractor for about an hour to warm it up. Removed the right side panel and noticed that you could see the top of the valve chambers working back and forth. Is this normal? It may be that the fluid level is too low. I read somewhere that filling to the bottom bolt hole would keep fluid out of the axle but it looks like it is not enough to cover the pump adequately. When I shut down the tractor, the disc went down quickly with no leak down time.Is this normal?
Plan on draining the fluid this week and refilling up to the full mark on the dipstick.
 

What '' Bottom hole '' are you mentioning ? , it does sound as if there is too little fluid in there , whether this is the problem isn't clear though .
The side panel on a UK built TEA ,D or F that has the dip stick in it has a bottom bolt , this corresponds exactly with the full mark on the dip stick . So removing the bolt and filling only up to this is a positive way to check the level , especially to determine if it's overfull .
When filling you must go slow too , there are only small weeping holes between gear box and rear axle , it takes time for the oil to pass through them . To speed things up I remove the side cover and fill half the oil up from there , the other half into the gear box .
 
The hole I am referring to is the lowermost 11/16 bolt hole for the side panel, with the dipstick. I noticed to day that at this level, the
fluid barely touches the dipstick. While it was running, the fluid was splashing around at the front of the pump and the top of the pump was
visible. I do think I have too low of a fluid level. My issue may be 2 parts, low fluid level, and whatever is allowing the disc to drop as
soon as I shut down the tractor. It was not raining fluid when I looked at it today. I will remove the other side panel tomorrow and see if I
can see a leak from there. That should give me an angle to see the top rh corner you were talking about.I was ready to start removing parts
but I read a post from John, U.K. not to go into the system until you find the leak. Maybe tomorrow I'll see it.Thanks for your help.
 

Sometimes , but unfortunately rarely ,you can be lucky and a drop in lift capacity can be down to a malfunctioning relief valve . If there is a weakened spring , a cracked or pitted ball or even a small speck of grit on the seat the pump won't be able to reach the proper pressure . I'm not that familiar with the US built tractors but this part might be worth examining .
 
If fluid comes out of the bottom hole, it normally is enough. A disc normally will drop in about 5 min. on a good system on these tractors. If it drops like a stone, there is a problem. However, you can work with it for quite a while that way if it holds up when pump is running.
 
Bob..
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Today,pulled the LH side panel and took a look in with the tractor running at mid range and the lift up with my disc attached. I noticed drops coming from the lift cylinder at a rate of about 1 every 2 seconds. I hope that this is the smoking gun that I was hoping to find.At any rate, I've got it in the shop draining the fluid out of it and plan to remove the lift cover and pump, clean out everything as best I can and go from there. I would like to replace the piston with the NAA type. Is this just a remove and replace
using the old cylinder? Also, does it require an o-ring and a leather washer or just one or the other? Thanks for your help, and patience.
 
If the disk is not bobbing droping a little and coming back up I don't think its the cylinder. I bet it's wear in the pump.
 
There's a little bit of me, actually a lot, that wants to take a look at all of it just so I can learn something. You may be right about the pump but I'm suspecting it is some of both. I had a pretty good drip coming from above but also on the disc it would hardly clear the ground with it, and when I cut the power, it would drop like a stone.Right now I have it in the shop with the fluid out, side panels off, ready to start.
Planning on a kit for the pump and will just have to see what I need on the cylinder / piston. Me and the tractor are 60 plus years old so I know that things do wear out and get weaker. It is a joy to me to tinker on.Thanks for your help.
 

''Me and the tractor are 60 plus years old so I know that things do wear out and get weaker.''
:) You and me both !
Be careful of the top cover , they are heavy beasts and sometimes stick hard on their gaskets .
A one off bracket made to bolt on a few holes will allow you to lift it with a hoist or block .
 
Charles in Aus.

Yes it is heavy indeed. I have a T035 I ended up using a engine lift to get mine off and back on. FYI, while getting it off is one thing getting back on and lining up the linkage is another, at least on a 35 it is.
 
When and if you remove the top cover,... there's component's that MUST be disconnected before you remove top cover...as inside case... you may not be aware of..

Bob..Owner TEA-20 Ferguson...Mf FE 35 X....Ford..2-N..
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Good point, Bob.

In addition, there may be an aluminum brace between the two arms, which must be taken loose before you can spread them and unlink the valve. My TEA20 (supposedly a 49 but serial tag is missing) has the brace, possibly a retrofit from a later model.

Lots of fun working through those holes, especially if your arms are as fat as mine.
 
Thanks for all of your help. I got it in the shop yesterday, drained the oil ready for today. I spent some time reading posts
and the service manual about how to do this.
Y'all were right, that aluminum bracket was interesting, finally got it off. I sure hope y'll have some good ideas how to put it
back on when the time comes.Maybe I can get my 10 year old nephew with his 10 year old arms to put it in for me.Followed the
advice about using an engine lift, was a great help. Trying to wrestle it around the bench was sporty enough.
Noticed several things when I got the pump and lift cover on the bench. Don't know why but it had a burnt smell. Also when I
blew the piston out of the cylinder, it was terribly scored and 2 of the ring gaps were directly in line and the 3rd was only
about 15 degrees away. Do you think that would be the cause of why it drops so fast when I cut the power?
The relief valve was a little sticky, but no such luck as finding a broken spring.
Next going to clean it all up and spend some money on a pump kit. Any reason not to replace the cylinder and piston with rings
while I am in there?
I appreciate all of your help. Wish y'all could sit in the shop with me, sip a pepsi and give me some tips. I bow to your
wisdom.
 

It's a good time to make sure there is no grit and filth lurking about in there , especially in those nooks and crannies behind the pump .
The lift oil just gets manky , it stinks , sometimes if you are unlucky , like rotten eggs . I would't worry about the burnt smell , it's just par for the course .
Replace the relief valve if you can , just good insurance , it's also probably a good time to replace the PTO shaft bearing and seal if they are at all suspect , otherwise you might curse yourself if it starts weeping in the future .
Right at the bottom of the casing above the blind holes on the underside is an area that can crack and cause really annoying weeps . This cracking can happen if bolts or studs too long have been used to fit a tow hitch or the like . Even screwing them in greased can produce enough hydraulic pressure to pop the thin wall at the end of the blind hole .
If there is a crack some sort of smeared on sealant [ JB weld ] will work , there is no pressure to overcome in there .
 

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