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Harry Ferguson Tractors Discussion Forum
:

timing chain

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Denteen

01-09-2019 06:33:55




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i just picked up a TEA20 it will not start . i replaced plugs , wires , and cap . i have spark and gas but it will not start . i was told to check the timing chain . i have it apart and the timing marks line up , but there is about 7/16 " of play on the chain . could that be my problem or is that fine on it . any other information would help . thanks




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John Deere D

01-10-2019 08:23:39




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 Re: timing chain in reply to Denteen, 01-09-2019 06:33:55  
If your Tractor is equipped with this carburetor, verify presence of fuel at base OF CARB...REMOVE DRAIN VALVE.
Zenith Carb:

Our Grass Cutter. This machine (6-Volt) was purchased new by our neighbor, and never suffered "previews owner syndrome"
All maintenance was done top notch since new:
This is not a Trailer Queen.....a worker Bee:
The original seat is hanging up....MF 88 Diesel donated seat:
I've purchased three parts TEA-20s....all suffering badly from "previous owner syndrome"

Bob...

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Denteen

01-10-2019 08:38:39




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 Re: timing chain in reply to John Deere D, 01-10-2019 08:23:39  
thanks for the pictures . looks good . mine is changed to 12 volt .



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John Deere D

01-10-2019 10:35:43




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 Re: timing chain in reply to Denteen, 01-10-2019 08:38:39  
Good day Denteen:
Original TEA-20's (4 cylinder Standard Engine) that left the factory equipped with the LUCAS 6 VOLT Starter and shipped to Canada, would motor the Engine as per designed as long as engine was tuned up, in overall good mechanical condition,electrical connections from battery to Earth / Ground MUST be in STELLAR condition.

The weak link in the Lucas 6 Volt starter would be the Torsional drive that absorbs the initial torque when the starter first engages the flywheel. This component, in my experience has never been a problem, until owners convert to a 12 Volt Battery!!!!!!

I mention this, if your machine has an original 6 Volt Lucas starer and someone has converted the electrical to 12 Volts do not be surprised if your Starter should fail.

Depending on your location on this planet and your skills on a computer a failed Torsional drive on a 6 Volt Lucas starter could cause you to have a headache.

Note info:

Bob...TEA 20 owner since 1974...6 Volt system:

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marloweg

01-09-2019 14:07:04




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 Re: timing chain in reply to Denteen, 01-09-2019 06:33:55  
you said you have gas are plugs wet or gas at the carb .



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marloweg

01-09-2019 14:05:00




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 Re: timing chain in reply to Denteen, 01-09-2019 06:33:55  
check your intake manifold and gasket make sure you have suction on the carb. that fuel is getting to the combustion chamber had a to-20 with a cracked intake manifold and it would not suck fuel crack was on the bottom and could not see it



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Jim.ME

01-09-2019 13:38:57




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 Re: timing chain in reply to Denteen, 01-09-2019 06:33:55  
Agco has the TEA20 manuals as well at acgopubs.com. Prices aren't bad.



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John Deere D

01-09-2019 12:25:23




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 Re: timing chain in reply to Denteen, 01-09-2019 06:33:55  
Sir. I own and have set the ignition timing (6-volts) on my TEA 20 S# 182991 several times and there are NO visual marks that can be seen on the flywheel when the STARTER is removed! There is a 1/4 " diam. hole just below the starter flange that I insert a 1/4" rod/drill bit into that lines up with a 1/4" hole drilled in the FWD side if the flywheel. This RIGGING procedure is to take place with the #1 piston traveling up on the compression stroke. On my TEA 20 this rigging procedure will lock the # 1 cylinder at TOP DEAD CENTER.I then install the DISTRIBUTOR and turn the distributor until the POINTS are just on the verge of opening. I call the corresponding distributor contact point in the distributor cap # 1 and connect the remaining three wires to the spark plugs in the correct firing order. I recently replaced the clutch and pressure plate in TEA 20 S# 182991 and noticed there is an ARROW stamped on the peripheral of the flywheel. This arrow lines up with a casting mark on the aft side of # 4 cylinder at the same time the rigging pin aligns with the hole In the engine and the hole in the flywheel.....yes # 1 TOP DEAD CENTER. I then marked the engine casing with a METAL marker (with starter removed)and placed a mark on a tooth of the ring gear lining up with my mark on the engine casting. Each tooth of the flywheel is equal to 2.48 deg. (360/145 teeth). I placed a mark on ten of the teeth. I gave the tractor a pull and connected a STROBE light to # 1 spark plug (used a 12 volt battery on a work stand)) and found that the ignition was not at the desired timing point that I preferred 25 deg. With the throttle set so as the PTO was running at 525 RPM I turned the distributor housing until the distributor was firing at 25 deg BTDC. NOW: Here is a note to know. ENGINE S# SIE to S8995E fitted with Lucas dist. MODEL D3A4 Lucas SERVICE # 40132 has a hole in the flywheel at 10/100/190 and 280 BTDC number 1 cylinder. ENGINE S# S8996E onwards fitted with Lucas dist. Model D3A4, Lucas service No. 40146 has a hole in the flywheel at TDC # 1,as well as 90/180/and 270 deg before TDC. CORRECT LOCATION OF TIMING PIN IS TDC of firing stroke # 1 cylinder. I did notice that on U-TUBE there is a video of some one checking a TEA 20 igniting timing In the above procedure that I checked mine. Also in the FERGUSON ARCHIVES "TEA20 Back to life" a posted picture of a Ferguson WITH timing marks on the FWD face of the flywheel

Bob...

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Denteen

01-09-2019 12:38:32




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 Re: timing chain in reply to John Deere D, 01-09-2019 12:25:23  
Thanks Bob , I need all the help I can get . This is my first old tractor .The biggest problem I have is , there is not a plate on it or any numbers telling me what the serial number is or what year it is . I'm just going from any information I can get to help me out on any thing I do to it . So any help I get , will help me . Thanks again . I would like to se some pictures of your tractors .



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John Deere D

01-09-2019 09:19:42




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 Re: timing chain in reply to Denteen, 01-09-2019 06:33:55  
Please share with the"YT" group the full operating history of this machine as you know it?

Makes it easier to assist you:

Bob...



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Denteen

01-10-2019 08:41:54




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 Re: timing chain in reply to John Deere D, 01-09-2019 09:19:42  
I have no history about the tractor , all I have is the bill of sale



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John Deere D

01-09-2019 09:18:09




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 Re: timing chain in reply to Denteen, 01-09-2019 06:33:55  
If you KNOW there is spark, and you KNOW there is fuel, then it's possibly an ignition timing problem:
Remove # 1 spark plug...plug closest to Radiator:
Remove STARTER so as to view Flywheel:
Turn engine over in direction of normal running/ operating direction..(attach hand tool to cap screw that fits into front drive of Crankshaft) Note when compression is present from # 1 spark plug bore: Not 1/4 diam hole in flange just below were starter is attached:
As you turn the engine over in the direction of normal operating / running direction,a 1/4" diameter HOLE in the FLYWHEEL shall align with the 1/4" diameter hole in the flange just below were starter is attached:
Insert appropriate tool 1/4" shank of drill bit so as to lock flywheel / crankshaft in place.

I DO NOT have my service manual with me as I'm away from my shop for several more months:

If I remember correctly, the hole in the flywheel shall align with the hole in the starter mounting boss at approximately 10 deg before top dead center of number one cylinder on the compression stroke?

Remove distributor cap....POINTS should be just starting to open.

The contact, inside the distributor cap that the ROTOR is aligned with....call that # 1 cylinder:
Note direction of rotation of rotor and insert the last remaining 3 plug wires in the order of the ignition firing.

NOW*
As you seem to to have removed the front covers from the timing chain and drive components you should consider doing the below:
With starter removed,mark a tooth on the flywheel....metal marker...yellow...white..etc.
Place a similar mark on the face of the engine block where the starer attaches aligned with the tooth that yo have marked: Remove 1/4" rigging pin that yo inserted:
Rotate engine CW...CCW...CW...CCW several times and verify how many teeth must pass by the mark you placed on the engine before the ROTOR STARTS to TURN;

Info from one of the four TEA-20 I own:

The Governor weights were ready to fall off/detach from the holding pins. Chain, Sprockets, Governor ,Gaskets, Front oil seal were replaced at sometime in 1967> 1969 when a MAJOR was done to the ENGINE. I rotated the crankshaft CW/CCW and noticed 4 TEETH on the FLYWHEEL had to move before the DISTRIBUTOR ROTOR would move. Now only one tooth on the flywheel will pass before the Rotor moves. The governor was sticking at full throttle and would not idle down.

Info I compiled when REPLACING Crank sprocket ,Cam sprocket and Timing Chain.
(1) 85 MM Bore Engine:

(2) Front Lip Oil Seal "National /Federal Mogul Lip Seal" # 472164V A SMALL amount of BLUE Silicone was placed around the inside bore of the front timing chain cover before Lip seal was installed:

(3) I installed a repair SLEEVE on the front drive Pulley, make "DURA SLEEVE" # 99175. The sealing area were the LIP SEAL makes contact was slightly grooved. Dura Sleeve specs. 1.745">1.753" Diam. # 68 Rockwell Hardness:

(4) On installation the Governor plunger shall be reseeded tight against the Flyweights and no weights shall be loose or hanging down:

(5) A small amount (only enough to make the surface shiny) of engine oil was added to the shaft of the governor PLUNGER as well as the timing chain:

(6)There are NO timing Marks on the NEW Sprockets. You may wish to line the timing marks up (facing each other) before you remove the sprockets:

(7)Place the old sprocket (CAM SPROCKET) on top of the new sprockets and accurately scribe the new sprockets as to the timing marks. There are FOUR hols in the hub of the CAM SPROCKET. Keeping turning the old sprocket until the four hols and all teeth line up. These hols are slightly off set. I used several SHOULDERED cap screws to ensure I had the new and old sprockets properly aligned. You may have to flip the old sprocket over...see right up:

(8) It's good practice to measure the thickness of the hub of the old crankshaft sprocket and the new crankshaft sprocket as the teeth on the two sprockets should align for both proper operation and longevity.(there were shims between the old Crankshaft sprocket and the shoulder portion of the crankshaft):

Cheers
Bob...

As you seem to be deep into the Cam / crankshaft drive area ......this is the one area that always suffers from "PREVIOUS OWNER SYNDROME". That is this area is NEVER given the rightful attention. When the FLY weights fall off and become jammed the chain and sprockets ...this is a true pain in the ARSSSS.
If you install new Cam sprocket,Crank sprocket,Chain,be sure to check with straight edge that the Cam sprocket aligns with the Crank sprocket. There was original SHIMS place behind the Crankshaft sprocket as per required:."PREVIOUS OWNER SYNDROME".

Do a comprehensive inspection of these Governor Fly weights:

All the best......these tractors are a beautiful machine..."PREVIOUS OWNER SYNDROME"....has cause a lot of problems:

Bob....Retired Power Engineer...Owner operator TEA-20's

=


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Denteen

01-09-2019 11:07:02




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 Re: timing chain in reply to John Deere D, 01-09-2019 09:18:09  
John Deere D , can you send me some pictures of your tractors .



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Denteen

01-09-2019 09:48:02




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 Re: timing chain in reply to John Deere D, 01-09-2019 09:18:09  
thank you very much , also where did you get your service manual ?



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John Deere D

01-09-2019 12:02:53




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 Re: timing chain in reply to Denteen, 01-09-2019 09:48:02  
I just entered as per below into the internet....e-bay usa....

Massey Ferguson TEA-20 TED-20 Tractor Service Manual

I have no connection in any way or forum...appears to be a top quality reprint...for the price it should be....


Bob...

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John Deere D

01-09-2019 11:51:16




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 Re: timing chain in reply to Denteen, 01-09-2019 09:48:02  
I've had the best success by entering phrases into the Internet such as below:

Ferguson TEA-20 Parts Book:

Tea-20 service manual:

Original TEA-20 Service Manual:

I check out e-bay often:

In Canada I check out a web based for sale.. known as ....Kijiji

I check out e-bay England:

I check out e-bay Australia:

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Jim.ME

01-09-2019 07:37:43




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 Re: timing chain in reply to Denteen, 01-09-2019 06:33:55  
Perhaps you got a wire or two mixed or out of place, its easy to do when changing out cap, wires, and plugs.



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miner09

01-09-2019 07:09:12




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 Re: timing chain in reply to Denteen, 01-09-2019 06:33:55  
It should run with play in chain. Check your timing.



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