New To Me 1966 IH 504

Hey All,
I was referred here by a member on the Farmall Club forum that said i may get more help here.

Look forward to getting know everyone here.

These are my posts from the other forum from the last week up to where i am with the project as of tonight.

I guess i have to get access to post pictures since i am new, I will see if i can get the stuff posted tomorrow.

Hey everyone, great forum here.
Been looking for a tractor with a loader to use around the house and came across a decent deal on this. With my limited knowledge i believe its a 504 utility or could it be a 2504? Its a gas motor that starts easy and runs strong.
This is a picture of it on my way home from buying it.



The 3 point lift is very strong along with the tilt on the loader however the loader lift is weak. I have been using it for a couple months like this waiting for the weather to cool down so i can work on it. I have been gathering parts i am going to need, my plan is to take the body panels and loader off so i can soda blast and paint them and make it easier to work on the hydraulics. I am an avid car guy and can do everything from body work & paint to building engines so i am not afraid to take anything apart. I know very little about hydraulics but am willing to learn. Sunday i was clearing some land and while pushing over some small maple trees i blew one of the steel lines, heard a loud pop and shot fluid all over.
Here is the line i blew, it sprays fluid when i hit the bucket tilt lever.



Unless i am wrong i believe if the 3 point works well along with the bucket tilt the pump is working properly, especially if it had enough pressure to do that much damage to the steel line.
I decided it was not worth fixing the line and putting new fluid in without doing the tear down to repair-replace everything including a new filter and fluid. So last night i started tearing it down. First step was to remove the loader and make room to work on it.
This is my progress so far.





Where do i begin on trouble shooting the hydraulics besides filter and fluid change? I assume the loader control valves are simple to tear down & rebuild, am i correct? I have read about another valve that is a pressure relief or bleed valve, where is that and is that also simple to rebuild?
I did get a manual on CD but honestly i am more of a hands on type of guy.
Looking forward to sharing my progress and getting help from all you experts out there.

Got a little time in on it tonight, started by draining the fluid. Is this the color it is supposed to be?



Took the cover off to find no filter.



Is there a lower point on the unit to drain from? Looks like the tractor is on a slight angle towards the back so a bottom drain at the rear would be nice but i didn't see one.

Also tried to take off the cover where the gauges are, the temp sending unit is the only thing stopping me from removing everything. Is there a way i can un-hook it from either the gauge or water housing?





Last question for tonight.
There is a 6 wire plug going up to the gauge cluster but where it plugs into there is an additional pin sticking out, any idea what it is supposed to go to?

I got some more stuff removed.





I pulled the drain plug under the rear and got the rest of the fluid drained. While crawling under i found this:



I am assuming this is just an inspection cover so i should be able to flatten it out and re-use it, doesn't look like it has a gasket.

This looks like another drain plug but its in pretty bad shape, don't know if i can get it out. Do i need to try to get it out or will the rear drain plug let enough of the fluid out?



These are the disconnects for the loader, should they be bolted in anywhere? They are just sitting there right now.




I would really like to put lights in here, does anyone have a picture of what the OEM ones look like?

Now i am at the point of no return.
Here is tonight's progress.





This large valve in the middle, should i take it apart and clean / rebuild it?



The the pump in here?



Or here?

Removed the pump today, looks brand new however how bad can it look submersed in oil.

It is a Cessna pump and stamped on it was J 01 GS, could that be a build date on the pump meaning it has already been replaced in 2001?
I keep reading about a piggy back pump but only appeared to be the single pump. Should there be another one since i have a loader?

Ok that was overloaded. I have no idea what your problem is. You need to get a manual and study it. There's no way to go from knowing nothing about the tractor to being an expert in a single post. If you have a question or two we can probably help you, I have a 504. Don't just tear into a tractor blindly, more than likely you will cause more problems than you will fix since you don't know what or where the problem is. Drive it around, work it if you can to find what needs fixed. Then make a list, look at your book, look online then ask if you need to. Sorry if i'm being blunt but i'm trying to save you from giving yourself headaches and excessive repair costs.

First of all, no the fluid is not supposed to be white like that.... it has water in it. You will need to flush it really good, kerosene or diesel works, and still probably not get ALL the water out the first change. Next, if you had enough pressure to operate the bucket and 3 point strongly and blow that line, there is nothing wrong with that pump or the master relief valve. Since you have a 3 point, you have a double pump, but the main can be either a 12 or 17 gpm. There MAY be a circuit relief valve in the main loader valve, but I don't know. If there is a circuit relief, that could be your problem with lifting with the main boom. Or it could be your cylinder seals are bad and are by-passing inside the cylinder. Beyond that, someone more familiar with the 504/2504 will have to answer, but I'm thinking your loader has it's own set of valves and your disconnects to the loader are some kind of "pressure-beyond" ports from your auxiliary valve, and not actually operated thru that valve..

That was a lot of information all at once, like i said it was copies from a week or 2 on another forum.
I am not tearing into it blindly, i am methodically taking everything apart to freshen it up. Most of the stuff i am doing is basic and cosmetic. My plan is to get all the gauges working, change the filters and fluids, paint and put it back together. I am hoping the fluid and filter change fixes most of the issues.

Couple of things... in going back over your pictures, I noticed there are 2 aux. valves on the tractor, so are those used for the loader, or do you have separate valves as part of the loader?
Also, I mentioned there is nothing wrong with your master or main relief valve... it might be stuck and that's why it blew the line. Or the line may have just had a weak spot. Only way to tell for sure is to install a gauge and check it according to a service manual. Again, there might be circuit relief valves built into those auxiliary valves.... don't know. I don't recall what those Cessna pumps were actually "rated" at, but most likely they will stand 2500 psi. I know at that time if Cessna rated one at 2000 psi, it would probably take 2500 all day long and 3000 for short periods... we tested them that way for hundreds of thousands of cycles.

There are 3 sets of disconnects, the 2 you see in the picture and one on the other side.
The 2 levers above the brakes operate the loader, the outer one is the bucket tilt. The inner one is for the bucket lift as well as the rear aux ports. They each have a set of disconnects that go to the loader.
From everything i have read the pump is rated at 2250 PSI and 12 GPM unless it was upgraded at some point to the 17 GPM unit.
I am still not sure where the 3 point lift gets if power from, is there an additional pump under the seat area?

You mention i can flush the system with Kero, do i just pour it in the fill hole and let it drain out the rear drain or is there a better way to do it?
I have let everything drain really well and plan on blowing out all the lines before i put them back on. The main thing i am worried about is getting all the fluid out of the cylinders.

Here is both sides of one on the control valves.
I am trying to find a breakdown of these to see if i should take them apart and clean / rebuild them.

Don't take those valves apart without a manual. The detent mechanism is tricky. If they aren't leaking you should probably leave them alone. There's nothing in there that you can renew except some small parts in the detent mechanism and a couple of o-rings that serve to keep oil from oozing too much.

The "lift pump" for the 3 point is either a 4 1/2 or7 gpm pump, mounted on the either 12 or 17gpm pump. The 12 or 17 gpm pump supplies the auxiliary valves and PS. pumps may be rated at 2250, but the relief valves for both systems is 1550 to 1600 psi. A tractor without a lift, either 3 point or Fast Hitch, will have a cover in place of the smaller pump. So there is a separate relief valve for the rear lift system and for the auxiliary. It may be that the auxiliary relief valve is weak and there may just be a leverage advantage for the bucket tilt, so it appears to work fine where the "boom" does not. You already have the aux. valves off, so the next step is the transfer block and that is where the relief valve is located.
I realized the 504/2504 is in the same I&T manual as my 240U... number IH-201... has a pretty good section on the hydraulics.

(quoted from post at 18:10:48 09/13/13) Don't take those valves apart without a manual. The detent mechanism is tricky. If they aren't leaking you should probably leave them alone. There's nothing in there that you can renew except some small parts in the detent mechanism and a couple of o-rings that serve to keep oil from oozing too much.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up.
I never noticed them leaking so i will just clean them up without taking them apart.

(quoted from post at 18:33:38 09/13/13) The "lift pump" for the 3 point is either a 4 1/2 or7 gpm pump, mounted on the either 12 or 17gpm pump. The 12 or 17 gpm pump supplies the auxiliary valves and PS. pumps may be rated at 2250, but the relief valves for both systems is 1550 to 1600 psi. A tractor without a lift, either 3 point or Fast Hitch, will have a cover in place of the smaller pump. So there is a separate relief valve for the rear lift system and for the auxiliary. It may be that the auxiliary relief valve is weak and there may just be a leverage advantage for the bucket tilt, so it appears to work fine where the "boom" does not. You already have the aux. valves off, so the next step is the transfer block and that is where the relief valve is located.
I realized the 504/2504 is in the same I&T manual as my 240U... number IH-201... has a pretty good section on the hydraulics.

Click to expand...

So if it had a piggy back pump it would still share the same lines exiting the pump. I will pull the pump back out today, get a picture and some numbers off it..

The picture below is the transfer block correct? The top line comes from the pump housing. I should remove, clean / rebuild that while everything is apart just to make sure since it is so hard to get to once everything is back together.




Thanks for the help.

If they are two separate systems, the lines would be separate for each and each has it's own relief valve. Pictures in the book do not show the exact location of the transfer block, but it says you need to remove the auxiliary valves to get to it. I would think that means it's behind those valves on the transmission cover.
IMO, the problem with tearing everything apart is, if that part is working, you could screw it up by tearing it down. You may not find seals for everything. The I&T does show a breakdown of the aux. valves though, so that manual would be a good investment. I got mine from TSC.

Thanks for sharing the knowledge, i bought a manual on CD so i will be able to look at this stuff Monday.

I understand the risk of taking it all apart but i have always had a bad case of i might as well do this while i am at it. Can't see painting around everything when i can take it off and do it right. I am a very meticulous and detail oriented person so its real hard for me to not try to fix everything while i am at it.
I plan on keeping this tractor for a long time (unless i hit the lottery and can afford to buy a new one) so the extra time and care i take now hopefully means less down time later.
Hope to start soda blasting some parts this weekend and maybe paint if i get energetic.

What is the best thing to use to repair the blown steel line?
I have a small wire fed welder and torches, i assume torch but what type of rod will work best?

I would take the old one to a hydraulic repair shop and have them bend up a new one, or find one from a salvage yard.

Took off the cover from under the seat.



This area is full of sludge, is it ok to pour some kero in here and try to clean it?
In the top right corner of this picture there is a tall silver plug that appears to be a drain into the lower area, will this allow the kero to drain into the lower section and eventually drain out the plug under the rear?

The brakes never worked well, if i pull the covers springs won't go flying will they?

Hey All, got side tracked on other items but its time to get back to work on the 504.
This weekend progress.
I know the fenders are supposed to be red but i thought the white would offset oll the red on the loader,

(reply to post at 05:37:06 11/04/13)

Click to expand...

Does anyone have a picture of the dash for a 504?
There is a light at the top and i was wondering if it was supposed to have a cover and if so what does it look like.
I would also like a picture of the battery box cover, mine is missing and i was going to make a new one but have no idea what it looks like.
Thanks

Its getting there.

This is how far i got this weekend.




Got the instrument cluster mostly finished tonight, guess i should have got a new Amp gauge also.



If the weather is good i may get to hear it run again by the end of this weekend.

Made good progress this weekend, mostly together and got it running. Still need to finish setting up the loader.
It fought me every step of the way but its 47 years old so i expected that.

I have 1 issue i need some help with. I have traced everything down following the wiring diagram and it all looks good.
When i hooked up the battery cable the generator started spinning. Went back and looked at all the wires, found a couple cracked casings so i repaired or replaced them as needed but when i give it power it still spins.

I finally took off the top wire from the voltage regulator and it stopped. It will start and run with this wire off but i assume it won't charge.
Could a bad voltage regulator cause this? It was fine before i took it apart.
Any other ideas?

I did get it all back together and was nice to be able to use it again this weekend.
Got it all covered in dust using the bush hog and grading my road, the dirtier it got the better it ran.
Still having hydraulic issues and its not charging but i will get it figured out and better then new.


Here You Go.
I took these tonight, started to get dark so i had to use the flash.

Sorry I am so late to the party. I found this trying to find a resolution for my IH 2606 industrial with Loader and Backhoe that someone installed a pump in the front rather than using the internal pump as it was designed...not sure why they did that, but everything is way underpowered because of it.

I posted pictures in subsequent posts, I wrote these descriptions here before I had the pictures so use these descriptions in conjunction with the pictures.

Anyways, this is a picture of the flow divider. The port on the top is the supply from the Cessna pump that is either 12gpm or 17gpm. That flow divider provides a supply to your power steering and also supplies your transfer block. The center is what I believe is your lock-out, which stops flow to the power steering so that if you are stationary you can send more power to your auxiliary ports.

Your transfer block is directly attached to the lift housing (that big block of metal that you sit on top of that houses your lifting cylinder that drives your rockshaft to lift the three point hitch). I believe that the bottom port from the flow divider should supply the transfer block. In your case two spools (levers) are attached to the side of your transfer block, those spools (levers) as you said work bucket lift and bucket tilt by supplying auxiliary lines on either side of the fuel tank. The purpose of the transfer block is to take the supply from the large pump and transfer it between spools for the loader auxiliary ports and also to supply the rear auxiliary ports directly. This results in an even distribution of pressure, and also provides a direct return to the transmission which serves as your reservoir.

The lift pump is actually in the same location as your auxiliary and power steering pump. If you look at the plate the pump is attached to you will see a smaller hose coming out from it directly to the left of the large hose that feeds your flow divider. If you follow this smaller hose you will see that is feeds to a small port on the front of the lift housing directly behind where your legs would be if you were sitting on the tractor.

Your fluid has water in it. There are four main drain plugs located on the underside of the transmission. The first plug is located on the bottom side of the transmission in the center near the pump supply hoses You will see a bump out because there is an oversized gear in there that feeds the fluid into the pump chamber from the filter chamber. The second plug is in the center between the axles and bell housing. This plug is actually vertical and that faces the engine. The third is the main plug which is located directly under the center of the axles. The fourth drain plug is on the side of the lift housing towards the back on the right hand side (if you are sitting on the tractor). This one is horrible because I cannot fit any container in there to successfully catch the oil, but this is still necessary to clean out because this is the return area for the rest of the transmission. You must flush this system several times in order to get all that water out. Keep in mind...all of the fluid in your system also lubricates your entire transmission so keep in mind before using any harsh chemicals and that any water can rust out your gears, cause fractures, failures, or slippage. All of the plugs must be opened because the transmission is compartmentalized and they do not easily drain between unless the tractor is running and the pump is actively pushing fluid.

Hope this at least helps you figure out what you are looking at so you can determine flow. Once you find your transfer block can you tell me where your rear auxiliary ports lead to (supply and return) with pictures?

You can see all three bottom drain plugs, the drain plug for the lift housing is shown in a picture below


I don't have the locking option for the power steering like yours does




You can see the plate cover for the supply from the lift pump. I only have a plate and an inlet, you have a full block that mounts in place of this plate. As for the transfer block yours may be different because I think they used different ones on different models. I don't have a rear PTO or hitch, mine is strictly a backhoe so I don't have any additional spools mounted to it. I think you can also see the drain plug in this picture all the way to left on the side of the of the lift housing. If that isn't the actual plug it is in that general location.

I have searched high and low for a schematic on the transfer block. I cannot find one and nothing is stamped on it to let me know what is a inlet or outlet. Whoever owned this before me installed a pump off the front of the tractor that provided flow for the loader and hoe. This was way underpowered at the hoe, but strong at the loader. It didn't give clearance in the front and was susceptible to damage so ideally I want to use the internal pump. I got rid of the external pump and took the supply hose from the bottom of the flow divider and put that into the inlet of my loader directional valve. I have a 2 spool directional valve with a power beyond at the loader. The power beyond feeds the backhoe and the backhoe return is connected to the transfer block where the flow divider was originally hooked up to. However, that is the only access point to return the fluid back into the transmission and I do not have a way to hook up the return from the loader so the cylinders cannot drain when they are full. I need to know how to hook up a return from both the loader valves and the backhoe valves, my guess is that one of the plugs from the transfer block would also be a return but I don't know which one. I also don't know if I can hook up a tee where I have the return going into the transfer block because I feel like it would just back-feed into the drain/.return from the loader valve which would not solve my problem, or build up extra pressure which could cause other problems. If you can offer any insight from your setup that would be appreciated.

I would tend to think that because of age and care that ruptured steel hose you had was either already cracked or rusted and whatever you did just made it let go. I had a couple lines that feed the cylinders to my backhoe do that. I just did a quick weld and they held fine, but you need to carefully grind down to bare metal


This is on the back of my transfer block. I have no idea where it feeds to.


This is the front of the transfer block, this was originally attached to the bottom port from the flow divider.


This is the top of the transfer block, I have no idea what they do.