This Vid's for you! Hand crank start......the right way

Tom Fleming · Aug 5, 2013

I continue to see posts on this forum around hand cranking their tractors. Some say "easy", others say it is a "death wish" waiting to happen.

I say, if fuel delivery and ignition are right, it is easy AND safe. You have to know what you are doing, and you have to pay attention to small details. If you get lazy, you get hurt. However, IHC didn't become the largest tractor seller in the 20's and 30's by sending all their customers to the hospital because of hand cranking accidents.

The guy in the video is nearyly 90 years old, and his machinery is maintained correctly. BTW, the 22-36 was a BIG horse in the day. Notice his technique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dW5U-YGOO8

bjb in TX from Ne · Aug 5, 2013

My WC and B Allis both start easily with the crank and rarely kick back. However, some of my dad's uncles did break wrist trying to get the Farmalls cranked. My great-granfather basically found out if it was a damp morning they would start the 2N ford and pull start the Farmalls b/c of the kickback.

You have to know the proper technique for your machine and its temperament to safely hand start an engine. If in doubt use a belt or pull start it.

mkirsch · Aug 5, 2013

Yeah, *IF* this is exactly right... *IF* that is exactly right...

Things are rarely perfect, and few people understand how to get them that way.

Tom Fleming · Aug 5, 2013

Mkirsch, I get your point. I guess part of what I am trying to impress on the younger crowd is, GET IT RIGHT, and it works fine.

A lot of people don't want to take the time to understand how to properly maintain and operate these older tractors. They want it to be like their car. Steers here, gas here, GO. Look at everyone who wants to convert over to an alternator and 12v.

so, I am NOT getting down on anyone who coverts, goes to electronic ignition, or similar. What i am stressing, is that if you want to keep your tractor original, take the time to GET IT RIGHT. You will have no issues starting or operating. I truly shake my head at some who post here who just don't want to take the time or make the effort to get it right. My dad used to say, "if you cant fix it, don't operate it". While that is a little harsh, it is truly true.

So, while I don't disagree with you, that was not the point I was trying to make........ :wink:

Nebraska Cowman · Aug 5, 2013

he makes it look easy! Except I'm sure I heard him
say "advance the spark a little" When in fact he
should have said "retard". I'm sure he probably
moved the lever the right way, he just misspoke.

Tom Fleming · Aug 5, 2013

cowman, good observation. I think what he truly meant was, advance the spark slightly from being OFF or grounded, don't go full advance. Especially on the E4A, if you get it to pop once, and the impulse trips to OFF, and you crank again, you are in for a surprise........

which goes to my point of paying attention to what you are doing......

Watch a couple of the other videos for Bud. Rest his soul, he passed in Dec, but a VERY interesting man. Would have loved to have met him.

rustyfarmall · Aug 5, 2013

MKirsch, anyone who owns or plays with these old, handcrank start tractors either already KNOWS how to make it right, or will quickly learn out of pure frustration. It"s kind of like a rope start lawnmower. If it doesn"t start and run with only 3 or 4 pulls on that rope, you may as well give up and do some trouble shooting.

Jim Becker · Aug 5, 2013

(quoted from post at 07:46:01 08/05/13) cowman, good observation. I think what he truly meant was, advance the spark slightly from being OFF or grounded, don't go full advance.

I noticed the "advance a little" comment too, and drew the same conclusion. From the video, you really couldn't see how he was gripping the crank. It thought maybe his thumb was on the wrong side for the second pull. I've caught myself gripping properly for one pull then not doing it right if I need to do a second.

Here is a video I did a while back. At about 1:30 I explain the grip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNiS86_H-RA

There is very little risk in hand cranking if the engine is set properly and the cranking is done properly. I won't hand crank an engine that somebody has set the timing "by ear".

Zachary Hoyt · Aug 5, 2013

That is very interesting to me. I have hand cranked both an Allis B and C and a Farmall H and 300 and I have never had the crank kick back on the Farmalls, but the Allises would kick back on me all of the time. I had attributed this to the fact of there being more parts on the H instead of the hand crank going directly to the crankshaft, but maybe there is some other explanation instead.
Zach

Nebraska Cowman · Aug 5, 2013

What scares me is battery ignition tractors. They
are always timed fast. And unlike a magneto it does
not take fast movement to produce a spark. If you
are cranking slow at the wrong spot and it fires
before TDC it IS GOING TO KICK.

sflem849 · Aug 5, 2013

Don't you know you are supposed to scrap anything with a hand crank because they are not safe! You really should spend more time on YT. :lol:

Tom Fleming · Aug 5, 2013

sflem849, I'll be happy to dispose of all "hazardous" waste in the form of hand crank tractors. Heck I won't charge a fee, and I will come pick them up free of charge!

I watched the video again. So, let me clarify, as I just went through my starting procedure again in my head. To ground the mag and shut the tractor off, the spark level is in full retarded position, which grounds the points out. To start the tractor, you DO advance the timing (spark rod) partially so the points are not grounded. hence, the "advance" statement.

Another important safety tip. when you shut the tractor off, you should leave the spark rod in the fully retarded, grounded, position. NEVER, ever, ever leave a magneto ungrounded when shutting it off for the day, or even to refuel. if for any reason, someone turns over the engine, it can and will probably start.

So, if you think about it, Bud was spot on. You do have to advance the spark slightly for starting. But remember, when off and in the the grounded position, it is fully retarded as well.

teddy52food · Aug 5, 2013

They shouldn't be timed fast. Time at TDC. The advance weights in the dist. takes care of the advance if they are working as they should be.

bjb in TX from Ne · Aug 6, 2013

When I first got my "B" it would take 4 pulls of the crank to start it after I killed it when trying to drive it around and learn its gearing. The first two nothing, the third it would kickback, and the forth usually it would start.

I solved that by properly setting the timing per the manual, that is to set them at the "Fire" mark on the flywheel (30degrees BTDC) and spin the mags backwards (no impulse) until the mark under the cap (FMJ mag) is lined up and then put them in and fine tune them to that mark. Sounds like the Allis' you tried cranking were set a bit too advanced.

Still haven't gotten either of my internationals (Regular and W30) rebuilt yet so the verdict is still out on how much trouble they will be for me.

bjb in TX from Ne · Aug 6, 2013

I am one of the "younger" crowd and the only thing I have that doesn't have a crank is my MH 35 SP combine.

My handcrank "toys":
Allis B
Allis WC
MD W-30
IHC Regular
JD H
JD LUC

I like to think of all the money I am saving on batteries :S

This Vid's for you! Hand crank start......the right way

Tom Fleming

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bjb in TX from Ne

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mkirsch

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Tom Fleming

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Nebraska Cowman

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Tom Fleming

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Nebraska Cowman

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Tom Fleming

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