Electrall Generator

Hey, all --

I recently picked up an IHC Electrall generator with the (mistaken) idea that I could use it on a Super C. It's a side-mounted version, and thanks to Wardner's postings in the archives here on YT I learned that only the SMTA, 400, 450, 560, & 660 were capable of driving it. Data plate on this one states 110-120 1PH and 208-220 3PH. (See attached pics.)

My question for the forum: Is this a desirable item for somebody out there, or did I take a bath on this deal?

Thanks for any info you are able to provide to this Farmall-ignorant steel-wheeler.

-- Maine Fordson

Did you take a bath buying that?? I would say not but depends on what you gave for it. This is the first one I've seen in real life. Other wise I only seen them in pictures in the books. You have quite a rare item there. If I may ask what did you give for it?

I would be interested.Email is open.

Vito

Maine: I would love to own one, give me a call, 715-483-9359, Bob

Do you have the bracket and drive gear asss that goes with the unit?

Maine Fordson,

I may have made an error on one of my earliest Electrall threads. The 560 and 660 will not accept the side mount. The generator will certainly bolt up but the Electrall gearbox doesn't have the right set of gears. The gearbox drives off the top side of the IPTO driving gear. It is smaller to compensate for the six cylinder's higher speed.

Seeing that the Electrall did not sell well, IH did not bother to make a set of gears to mesh with the later IPTO driving gears. One could substitute those gears but would have an IPTO that turns too fast. Probably on the order of 610 RPM. I haven't bothered to look up the tooth counts.

The hardest Electrall part to find is the sidemount gearbox. You need to locate that before you have good value on the generator. Get the bracket too but that can be found on a trailer unit.

Lehman sales offered exactly what you have three times on eBay. They listed it as a reserve auction and it didn't sell with a $325 offer. Two Buy-it-Now auctions at $800 didn't work either. If it was a complete unit, I think it might have sold for $3000 plus.

<a href="http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r16/Wardner/?action=view&amp;current=Electrallcatalogandactual026.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

Maine Fordson,

I may have made an error on one of my earliest Electrall threads. The 560 and 660 will not accept the side mount. The generator will certainly bolt up but the Electrall gearbox doesn't have the right set of gears. The gearbox drives off the top side of the IPTO driving gear. It is smaller to compensate for the six cylinder's higher speed.

Seeing that the Electrall did not sell well, IH did not bother to make a set of gears to mesh with the later IPTO driving gears. One could substitute those gears but would have an IPTO that turns too fast. Probably on the order of 610 RPM. I haven't bothered to look up the tooth counts.

The hardest Electrall part to find is the sidemount gearbox. You need to locate that before you have good value on the generator. Get the bracket too but that can be found on a trailer unit.

Lehman sales offered exactly what you have three times on eBay. They listed it as a reserve auction and it didn't sell with a $325 offer. Two Buy-it-Now auctions at $800 didn't work either. If it was a complete unit, I think it might have sold for $3000 plus.

<a href="http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r16/Wardner/?action=view&amp;current=Electrallcatalogandactual026.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

Maine Fordson,

Seeing as you are close to me and that I eventually want to install four Electralls on my F-400, I could make an offer. However, it would be low. Email is open if you want to talk.
<a href="http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r16/Wardner/?action=view&amp;current=ebay172.jpg" target="_blank"></a>

Maine Fordson, I would like an opportunity to buy your electrall also. 763-957-0657 Thanks,
DonO

Geeze,

Everybody wants your Electrall. Maybe I should reconsider reproducing the gearbox. Big bucks though with the seven castings and patterns, gears and splined shafts, and general machine work.

Thanks for the replies, guys. I was seriously worried that my failure to do my homework before buying that generator was going to be a financial hardship. Now I am hopeful that I might get out from under it, maybe with a couple of bucks to spare...

As I said earlier, I picked this up thinking I could use it, but later learned that it is not suitable for my application, so if I can pass it along to someone who *will* be able to use it, so much the better.

John B.: Not to offend, but where I come from a gentleman doesn't show excessive interest in another's financial dealings. Let me just say that I paid cash money for it, and if I *do* wind up taking a bath on this deal, it's going to hurt.

tractor vin: All I have right now is what you see in the pictures.

I'm going to go back and see if the seller might still have the gear box lying around. I'm not overly hopeful, but as my dad always tells me, "Until you ask, the answer's already 'no.' "

DonOMN, Shep123, Vito, Wardner (and others): Thanks for your interest. If you want to contact me about this, e-mail is open. (If not, go to "Modern View" and it should be open there.) I'm going to be pretty busy this month, so it may be a few days or even a couple of weeks before I can give this the attention it deserves...

Thanks again for all the information and interest. Life is a crazy ride!

-- Maine Fordson

Maine Fordson, I would expect that most of the interest was with the assumption that you had a COMPLETE unit...

Without the drive gear, like Wardner says, what you have is only a partial and worth a lot lot less...

How's your fabrication skills? You could mount that unit to a trailer and drive it with the Super C's PTO.

(quoted from post at 23:13:23 04/16/11)...My question for the forum: Is this a desirable item for somebody out there, or did I take a bath on this deal?...

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(quoted from post at 23:55:50 04/16/11) Did you take a bath buying that?? I would say not but depends on what you gave for it. This is the first one I've seen in real life. Other wise I only seen them in pictures in the books. You have quite a rare item there. If I may ask what did you give for it?

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(quoted from post at 21:59:37 04/17/11)...John B.: Not to offend, but where I come from a gentleman doesn't show excessive interest in another's financial dealings. Let me just say that I paid cash money for it, and if I *do* wind up taking a bath on this deal, it's going to hurt...

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I would LOVE to comment on this portion as a neutral 3rd party. As we review the quotes above, it IS his business because YOU asked. When you say, "or did I take a bath on this deal?" how are we supposed to know!?! We would have to know how much you bought it for to know how much you are going to win or lose. John also asked the price before this forum post turned into a secret ad to sell the unuseful (to you) Electrall. So in the end, your initial post would have been better worded as what's it worth rather than what will I lose. You could have done the math from there if you didn't want to name the purchase price.

mkrisch,

They were sold for use on C's and later. They were PTO trailer units. They are fairly abundant and can be had for $800-$1500. I'm sure I could have one in a day or two if I was so inclined. They were fitted with a 6 to 1 geared speed increaser mfdg by IH.

Sources say there were only 103 sidemounts sold. Many of those generators were removed from the SMTA, 400-450 tractors for homemade power generation. The gearboxes were never removed and probably scrapped with the unrepairable/uneconomic tractor. This was at a time when future value was never considered. I know of several Electralls like this. In fact, I own one. It came from that huge auction near CO/SD several years ago. That's why I have two Electralls on my F400. The second one is driven by a cotton picker PTO which replaces the belt pulley gearbox.

I know of a derelict W400 without the genny but still has the gearbox. I've made an offer but owner still has it. I'm guessing there are less than 25 complete sidemount Electralls still extant. This is why they are so valuable. Premium over a trailer mount should be at least 2 or 3 times. Maybe more as they don't come up for sale.

Wow. The trolls really come out of the woodwork when something unusual like this shows up, don’t they?

A member of the YT community wrote to me earlier today and said, “[i:49521a9f78]Can be kinda a tough crowd on the YTmag forum, huh? I generally don't post questions there too often because I either never get a reply or I get ripped for asking a dumb question[/i:49521a9f78].” Yeah, I guess that [b:49521a9f78]does[/b:49521a9f78] happen, doesn’t it; I’ve been a regular visitor to YT since 2004, and almost nothing surprises me anymore.

My first inclination was to just ignore the commotion and comments that this find has stirred up; I work odd hours (please note the times at which my previous remarks on this subject were posted), and quite frankly, I don’t need any more turmoil in my life – certainly not over some piece of obsolete 1950s technology…

But the best way to handle a bully, even a hit-and-run Internet troll, is direct confrontation. So…

(quoted from post at 09:03:36 04/18/11) I would LOVE to comment on this portion as a neutral 3rd party. &lt;snip&gt;

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To “tractor expert” and Farmall guru sflem849: Yes, I screwed up by not doing my homework ahead of time to see if this unit would fit my particular application. Most of my old-tractor experience has been with 1920s-vintage steel-wheelers and early-1950s Deere 2-cylinder tractors (those are the green ones with yellow wheels; maybe you've heard about them), and only recently have I begun working with a Farmall Super C. If I were a Farmall expert like you, though, why would I need to come to this forum and ask questions?

If you took the time to look through the archives here on YT (which you probably didn’t, since you seem to already know everything), you’d have seen some of Wardner’s posts describing one Electrall that was listed several times on eBay, with no takers. If you’d bother to look again at my first posting in this thread, my primary question to the forum was this: “is this a desirable item?” [i:49521a9f78]i.e.[/i:49521a9f78], Does [i:49521a9f78][u:49521a9f78]anybody[/u:49521a9f78][/i:49521a9f78] want something like this?

John B. was kind enough to tell me that yes, indeed, it is a scarce item, and very sought-after. Great. That’s what I was looking for: Information. Now I have a better idea of what I bought. Until he told me that, I had no idea whether this old generator was a useful item or not, and whether I might have to resort to selling the copper windings inside for scrap, which was the reason for my secondary question, wondering whether this hasty purchase was going to be a financial burden for me. Since it’s a rare item, then, shouldn't the answer to the secondary query be something like, “No, you did OK,” or, “No, unless you paid more than $XXX for it”?

I stand by my comment, though, that “where I come from a gentleman doesn't show excessive interest in another's financial dealings.” It concerns no one whether I paid 2¢, 30¢, $4, $50, $600, $7000 or $80,000. Not a “neutral third party” like you, not anyone.

Your assertion that my initial post “would have been better worded as ‘what's it worth,’ ” calls to mind something my grandfather always said: “It’s not what it’s worth, it’s what it’ll fetch!” To potential buyers, this item’s worth may be a lot, or it may be a little; the Law of Supply and Demand sets the value: Low supply + high demand = higher price. Is it unreasonable of me, then, to now hope that a rare bird like this Electrall will fetch a price that wil allow me to recoup my initial cost, plus a little extra?

Furthermore…

Yes, I’ve gotten offers on the Electrall. From folks who understand that they'll need their own gearbox. Some offers have been for less than I paid for it; some are worth considering. (And no, I don't expect to get $5K for it, but I'm not going to give it away, either.) As for your allegation of my inquiries turning this thread into a “secret ad,” that’s laughable. If/when I decide to sell it, it will be listed in the Photo Ads here on YT, and I’ll probably add a courtesy notice to this thread for those who have indicated an interest.

Then, again…

If my Electrall is one of 103 side-mounted units sold, perhaps I ought to hold onto it for a while, since it’s bound to go up in value as time progresses? And even if I can’t locate the missing gear box, that becomes a non-issue if/when Wardner starts offering repros to hardcore Farmall collectors…

So, Tractor Expert sflem849, you just keep on lurking and making your snide comments from the cheap seats in your “neutral” dark corner. I prefer to deal with the vast majority of folks in this hobby who are decent, respectful folks who don’t mind sharing their knowledge and helping others out.

...

(quoted from post at 08:34:16 04/18/11) &lt;snip&gt; How's your fabrication skills? You could mount that unit to a trailer and drive it with the Super C's PTO.

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mkirsch: My fabrication skills are OK, my biggest problem is a busy schedule. It would be simpler for me to just buy a PTO-driven generator, instead of taking the time to get steel stock and a gearbox and pulley and PTO shaft and universal joints and wheels/rims together, and weld up a small trailer. Thanks for the idea, though...

Good points, but I am not an expert.


You could always buy a small trailer cheaper than you could build one.