12V conversion question

Brad Gyde · Mar 9, 2011

Hey all,

I took the generator off my 48(??) Cub down to be repaired. I'm having it converted to 12v (I know, alternator is cheaper, but oh well, trying to keep it original looking)..

My question is, since it appeared to have a "cut out" on the generator, is there anything special I have to change around? I'm not planning on changing polarity, planning to leave it positive ground.

I know the light bulbs would have to be changed (if they weren't missing)

My main concern is in the "switch box". This would be my first Farmall conversion, so I'm unsure if I will have to change anything around or not.

Thanks in advance,

Brad

Bob · Mar 9, 2011

If going 12 Volt, WHY not go to (-) ground, 'cause sooner or later someone's gonna see that 12 Volt battery and boost it or charge it (-) ground, like every other 12 Volt battery they've ever seen.

If a magneto, NOTHING needs to be changed in the switchbox, 'cept the wires on the ammeter IF you do go to (-) ground.

If a distributor ignition system, you'll have to add a dropping resistor ahead of the coil or go to a TRUE 12 Volt coil, NAPA IC14SB, for example.

Battery ignition coil... (-) side goes to distributor, if (-) ground, (+) side of coil to distributor, if (+) ground.

Brad Gyde · Mar 9, 2011

Bob,

Thanks, and I should have mentioned it's a mag ignition.

Do you know if any re-wiring will be required going from a cutout to a regulator?

I'm not positive that it actually was a cut-out relay, as it was bigger than any cut-out I have ever saw, but different from any regulator I ever saw.. (not saying I saw a lot of em, but..) I just planned to ask the fella redoing the generator, as he is very knowledgeable.

The best I can describe, it was around 2" square "saddle mount" (typical of the regulators I am familiar with) On one side it had 2 wires, which IIRC hooked each post of the generator to each post on that side of regulator, Opposite side had 1 wire hooked up, and without tracing it, appeared to run back to previously mentioned box.

Sound like it would be wired correctly for a cut-out, or a regulator, or would it be the same either way?

thanks,

Brad

PS.. I may end up going negative ground.. probably be easiest after thinking on it.. I pay attention to hooking up booster cables and chargers.. But sometimes my dad does not..

Anonymous-0 · Mar 9, 2011

The primary advantage of converting to 12 volts is the high alternator output with an internal regulator to eliminate mechanical regulator contacts.
The short coming of the older tractors 6 or 12 volt is the generator/regulator system. Generators provide relatively low charge current. When these tractors were used in the field all day long, the generator had enough time to recharge the battery. Now days when these tractors are operated with frequent starts and short run times the battery doesn't get fully charged. When batteries are not fully charge they fail.
Think of it as trying to charge a battery with a 6 Amp charger (generator) or a 50 Amp charger (alternator). The alternator will provide quick battery recovery with the shorter run times.
K-Mo

Brad Gyde · Mar 9, 2011

I fully understand the concept of alternator's advantages over a generator..

However, although the old girl earns her keep (and will continue to do so by plowing snow, grading the driveway, mowing the lawn, and if I ever find a sickle mower it will maintain the roadside also) I plan to slowly "refurbish" the tractor, and in doing so I want to keep the appearance as original as possible.

I have one tractor with an alternator, and i really don't like the looks of it. I know on the Cub it is well hidden, but still.

Plus, being it is magneto ignition, the only charging required will be from starting, and the nearly 2 hours of mowing should recharge it I would surely think.

Brad

Jon Hagen · Mar 9, 2011

Sorry if you mentioned it and I missed it, but if your going 12V generator, your cutout or regulator must be a 12v unit, the old 6V will not work on 12V.

The neg ground is a good idea, not only for safety when charging or boosting, but also most modern solid state electronic accessories you might want to add will be almost exclusivly 12v neg ground.

Brad Gyde · Mar 9, 2011

Jon,

No, I did not mention that, but, the gentleman doing the generator conversion said I will need the 12v regulator, armature, and field coils and he will be installing them all. I'm sure I could do the work myself, but he works reasonably, and all the things he has ever repaired for me he has done excellent work, and the one thing I did have a problem with he stood behind 100% (which seems like it's getting harder to find anymore)

What I'm trying to make sure is whatever he changes I won't have to do any rewiring, or if I do, what will have to be done..

Thank you,

Brad

gene bender · Mar 10, 2011

What good reason to go to 12v on a Cub. Keep it original looking with 12v. You will need a regulator change bulbs in the lites and get the wiring correct.

Brad Gyde · Mar 10, 2011

Gene,

Again.. it's my tractor, so I'd like it 12v, and would like it to appear as original.

The light bulbs really are not a problem seeing how when I bought the tractor someone had already took the lights off of it.. New repro light buckets w/bulbs are the same price in 6v or 12v.. so..

As also stated, the rebuilder is adding the regulator, so that will be handled.

My big question was do I need to change any wiring? If so, what?

Brad

Janicholson · Mar 10, 2011

All wiring is fine to use as is. The insulation should be checked to assure it is not cracked or worn through at any point, but the 12volts will put less amps through the wires, making it easier on them. As it is a mag, there is no issue other than lights. Do it your way. Sense it probably had a 4 position light switch, make sure that the new wiring of a voltage regulator does not use that part of the light switch formerly used for the generator charge rate control. It is a direct ground or ground through a resistor that is connected to the field terminal of the gen in its former setup. The field terminal now connects only to the Field terminal of the new regulator. Jim

rustyfarmall · Mar 10, 2011

(quoted from post at 06:50:04 03/10/11) Gene,

Again.. it's my tractor, so I'd like it 12v, and would like it to appear as original.

The light bulbs really are not a problem seeing how when I bought the tractor someone had already took the lights off of it.. New repro light buckets w/bulbs are the same price in 6v or 12v.. so..

As also stated, the rebuilder is adding the regulator, so that will be handled.

My big question was do I need to change any wiring? If so, what?

Brad

IF you DID have a cutout relay, and a 4 position light switch instead of the 3 position , then yes, you do need to change the wiring inside of the ammeter box. You need to completely bypass the high charge, low charge part of the light switch.

Brad Gyde · Mar 10, 2011

Thanks.. Now I'm getting somewhere again.

The tracotr was painted LOOOOONG before I bought it (as most the paint is falling off now) and it has the decal for a 4 position switch, but I have never turned the switch to see how many positions there are. I will do that later today.

I'm not sure how to tell the difference in a cut-out to a voltage regulator, as I said in my previous posts it looks more like a V-Reg than any cut-out I've ever saw (but I am only 30) and cut-outs, generators, and all of the like were pretty much long gone when I began to play with wrenches.. But, I'm trying to figure em out.

Thanks again,

Brad

John T · Mar 10, 2011

If youre converting to 12 volts Id use Negative Ground sam as Bob M,,,,,,
I would use a 3 wire (BAT ARM FLD) full fledged 12 volt Voltage Regulator versus messing with a Cutout Relay and any LHBD ligth switch charge regulation. Make sure the VR is suitable for NEG ground,,,,,,

BAT on VR to load (NOT battery/starter) side of ammeter......ARM/GEN on VR to ARM post on Genny,,,,,FLD on VR to gennys FLD post,,,,,loads like lights/ignition switch get hot battery voltage supply from LOAD side of ammeter, same terminal that wires to BAT on VR. Other Supply side of ammeter gets hot battery voltage often where big battery cable wirres to starter switch.

If it was Pos ground before, ammeter leads need reversed or it will read bass ackwards.

Polarize the genny BEFORE start up

LOOK AT BOB M'S WIRING DIAGRAMS

If this isnt the answer youre looking for I dont know what to tell you

John T

Faster346 · Mar 10, 2011

Why not leave it 6v since you're worried about it looking original? Cub engines spin over about as easy as a briggs & straton. You could probably rope start it if you had to. My C is 6v and spins over about as quick as my 12v H. Those tiny motors don't need 12 volts even in extreme cold conditions..at least mine don't.

Brad Gyde · Mar 10, 2011

Faster,

I'm converting to 12v because I prefer 12v. Not because I think it's better, quicker starting, or any other reason.. Just because i want it this way.

I have one tractor with a alternator, however, unlike the Cub, the alternator is in the open, and it looks horrendous to me.. I may end up finding a genny for it too in the end.

Besides, the cost of converting from 6 to 12 in the instance of genny repair to an alternator is a minuscule amount.. Plus, the wiring for the generator setup is relatively new (although "improper" wire was used)

But, since you replied.. You posted a picture of a LONG side mount toolbox on a H a while back.. You gonna leave it on the tractor? If not, wanna sell it?

Brad

Faster346 · Mar 10, 2011

(quoted from post at 12:46:07 03/10/11) Faster,

I'm converting to 12v because I prefer 12v. Not because I think it's better, quicker starting, or any other reason.. Just because i want it this way.

I have one tractor with a alternator, however, unlike the Cub, the alternator is in the open, and it looks horrendous to me.. I may end up finding a genny for it too in the end.

Besides, the cost of converting from 6 to 12 in the instance of genny repair to an alternator is a minuscule amount.. Plus, the wiring for the generator setup is relatively new (although "improper" wire was used)

But, since you replied.. You posted a picture of a LONG side mount toolbox on a H a while back.. You gonna leave it on the tractor? If not, wanna sell it?

Brad

This one? I sold that H, but I do still have the toolbox. What's it worth to you?

Brad Gyde · Mar 10, 2011

Yep, I believe that's the one.. I thought it was a factory made unit, but I see it's not.. Might still be interested though.. I think it would make a nice conversation piece. I like to add something different to my tractors to make them stand out a little, and I thought that box looked kinda neat.

I don't believe I live more than a half hour north of you (depending on where ya are in Temperance)

If you want to drop me a email if you get a chance, gydefamilyfarm (at) hotmail (dot) com and I shoot ya a line back as to what I was thinking.

Thanks,

Brad

Faster346 · Mar 10, 2011

(quoted from post at 19:49:07 03/10/11) Yep, I believe that's the one.. I thought it was a factory made unit, but I see it's not.. Might still be interested though.. I think it would make a nice conversation piece. I like to add something different to my tractors to make them stand out a little, and I thought that box looked kinda neat.

I don't believe I live more than a half hour north of you (depending on where ya are in Temperance)

If you want to drop me a email if you get a chance, gydefamilyfarm (at) hotmail (dot) com and I shoot ya a line back as to what I was thinking.

Thanks,

Brad

Sent you an email, thanks!

-Lance

12V conversion question

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