OT... incompetents and modern technology....

I work nights. EARLY one morning, after I had gotten home and was blissfully asleep, my wife wakes me up to tell me the FEDEX man was stuck on our road.
Our road is oiled/chipped up to my driveway. Beyond that it is dirt. In wet weather, of course, there is that immediate and obvious transition of dirt to MUD. This road meanders for about a mile before rejoining an oiled road. Only I and one neighbor live on each end of this fair weather road, and we own all of the property it runs through.
I was amazed that the guy would go past my house onto the mud road. I was even MORE amazed when I found that he hadn't passed my driveway, but had driven up from the south, from my neighbor's house on the other end.
I was quite annoyed at being awakened, and even more annoyed that this driver had torn up over a mile of road, deeply rutting it. The road commissioner had spent nearly a week getting the road in shape during the summer, recrowning it, working over the ditches etc.
I went out and spoke with the driver, who had asked my wife if I had a tractor. Normally, I'll go way out of my way to help someone out, but when I spoke to this young man, I asked him why on earth he had driven down this road. He replied, "because my GPS said to go this way."

THUD.... the sound of my jaw dropping.

Incredulously, I asked him if he had ever seen mud before... and if perhaps it crossed him mind that driving a ton truck down an obviously mud road MIGHT BE A BAD IDEA?

I then explained to the 29 yr old driver, that yes I had a tractor. 9 of them in fact. And chains. And they were merely 200' away, in my nice dry shed. And that they were all very clean and were going to remain that way. And that he was going to have to call a tow to remove his vehicle.
At this point, the driver became somewhat abusive, verbally, because I would not pull him out with my tractor.
I simply turned and walked back to my house, opened my garage door, and got into my SQUAD CAR, and returned back, parking on the last bit of good road. I believe the reality of his situation began to sink in. I advised him at this point I would be calling him a tow, and asked if he had a preference. His attitude changed somewhat and he made his own arrangements for a tow.
The worst part of this, besides the commentary on the total lack of common sense today, is that the road is a public road, and therefore the recourse for financial compensation for the damages are very limited. (taxes pay for the roads repair, you know.) So, my road is destroyed until next summer and will only get progressively worse over the course of the winter and spring as water runs down the ruts. !!!! Just had to vent.

Is there reasonable and prudent vehicular operation laws in your state. he could be considered neither reasonable or prudent operating a vehicle in obvious disregard for public maintained property.

A ticket with a judgement that he assist, with a shovel on foot, the repair of the road would be fitting. I would also suggest a Road impassible when wet signage be applied. Jim

Maybe I live in a different part of the country, but it seems like if a public road is impassable there should be signage. I"ve been down many county roads for the first time because my GPS pointed it out.

Could you and yout nieghbor get with county and agree to maintain the road as a private road at your exspence and then put up no trespassing signs. As long as road is public road maintained by county would not think you can control who uses it.

(quoted from post at 12:43:28 01/10/11) Maybe I live in a different part of the country, but it seems like if a public road is impassable there should be signage. I"ve been down many county roads for the first time because my GPS pointed it out.

Click to expand...

Most likely there WAS a sign at the entrance to the road which warned of "gravel ends" or "level B maintenance" "enter at your own risk". I have a GPS also, and it has tried many times to take me down roads that were closed many years ago and is now nothing more than an entrance into a field.

No matter what your GPS tells you, if it doesn't look like a road, don't try to go down it.

Isn't there room for an honest mistake in today's society? Sounds like that's really all that happened here.

You say "obvious mud road" because you live on it.

To me, it would've been an "obvious DIRT road" which, I would expect to be passable if there are no signs to the contrary. Dirt roads usually look muddy but it's usually just a thin layer of wet dust, and there's a solid base underneath.

Maybe the boss should've warned him to not drive on dirt roads? The boss probably warned him about 50 different things before sending him out on the road. You expecting him to remember them all? Could you remember them all? I doubt it.

Let he who has never tried to drive somewhere he shouldn't and gotten stuck, throw the first stone. I certainly ain't gonna be throwing any rocks today...

Sometimes you just gotta learn by making your own mistakes.

Well, first of all, it is very unlikely that a road commisioner will allow a road to go to private maintainance. The Twp. receives $ for the care of "minimum maintainance roads" which exceeds the normal expense of maintaining those roads.
Illinois does not have any sort of statute regarding due regard for road conditions, beyond ones specifically dealing with FRESHLY graded or oiled roadways, so a citation is not feasible.
I've consulted with the state's atty, and signage which says, Closed when wet, or any similar verbiage is too subjective to enforce. Is "wet" after a light rain or a toad stangler?
And finally, if GPS says its the route to take, but your eyes tell you its a mud road, which should you believe?

Well, first of all, it is very unlikely that a road commisioner will allow a road to go to private maintainance. The Twp. receives $ for the care of "minimum maintainance roads" which exceeds the normal expense of maintaining those roads.
Illinois does not have any sort of statute regarding due regard for road conditions, beyond ones specifically dealing with FRESHLY graded or oiled roadways, so a citation is not feasible.
I've consulted with the state's atty, and signage which says, Closed when wet, or any similar verbiage is too subjective to enforce. Is "wet" after a light rain or a toad stangler?
And finally, if GPS says its the route to take, but your eyes tell you its a mud road, which should you believe?

Common sense comes in to play here. It is OBVIOUSLY a dirt road. It had been raining for the previous week. There were NO tracks in the road indicating that anyone else had driven down it. Only a fool would think he could drive a ton truck down a road like that. A 17 yr old? Sure, I could see that... but 29? I'm sure if you saw the road, you would come to the same conclusion.
My point is people will believe what their GPS says before they believe what is right in front of their eyes. Call it casting stones if you like. I call it calling a spade a spade.

Not sure where this is located, but I know in MO it is not unusual to go down a "county maintained road" (probably not the best term as most here are rarely maintained), and end up stuck, especially in winter, or early spring. I know it varies here by county, and sometimes no good way to tell where county maintenance begins and ends, and in fact I have seen bridges completely out, with no signs warning. In fact the county bridge running along my property has a chunk of concrete deck completely out of it (probably 2 feet square hole), and if a car drops off it will be bad news for the car. And most times the hole is underwater. I gave up on trying to tell the county that it needs repaired after the second or third time (they always say they have no money). I guess I am like others, and if it is county maintained, then it is fair game to at least attempt. Actually in this part of the country some of the atv's , and guys with the big 4x4's would purposely give it a workout to see if they could make it. I have had 4x4 pickups try to get up a creek on my private property, just to see if they could make it through.

Not sure why this came to mind...

Where I'm from, every road is accessable by vehicle at all time of the year. Period. I would have done the same thing. If there is a road, I would drive on it.

Interesting story. I'm kind of wondering what you would have done if you hadn't used your SQUAD CAR to scare him?

Mind you, I'm NOT suggesting that he was right or you were right. Rather, I'm just curious as to how you might have approached this problem if you hadn't used the strong arm of the law to tilt the balance, ... and what this '29 year old' will think of law officers during the rest of his life? I have a great respect for good cops, but there have been a slew of bad cops here in Indiana this past year. I'd hate to think of this 'young' truck driver paying this experience forward in the future and whether or not it could have been handled differently. Hmmm??

I have pulled out several drivers. One ran the stop sign at a T intersection and went down a considerable hill on my property. Yeah, stupid.
But in my younger days, I was pulled out a few times myself.
Who knows when I might need help again?

Yassah! Buford T. LOL Made my day.

Gordo

In my state, Massachusetts, the cities and towns are responsible for the roads and safe passage on them. Motorists can file claims if their vehicle sustains suspension damage or tire destruction even if they see the pothole. Although I don't know this for a fact, I presume the jurisdiction can also be held liable for personal injury if the vehicle leaves the road due to poor maintenance.

Their only "out" is the posting of signs or provable traffic violations such as speeding, DUI, or suspension of license. "Pass at your own risk" signs are seen frequently. You need to get a few of those or close the road with barriers. "Private road" signs are also required.

Your road looked like a road by virtue of the maintenance performed last summer and paid for by the next higher level of government. Some of those funds came from the considerable fuel tax paid by Fedex. As a representative of the town, the right thing to do was to pull him out and stop puffing your chest. If you want to bill the town, that is your business.

I see your point. But on the other hand, it is a public road and there were no ruts in it when he approached. So it's not too unreasonable for him to assume that it would support his truck.

Thats what is wrong with America these days.
Nobody wants to lend a helping hand. People would rather disagree and complain about everything.

It's retarded idiot cops like you in Illinois that cause us to shoot you idiots

Well, this one is interesting. What would I have done.......in my job, I don't often work nights anymore, but on occasion, I do pull an all-nighter (ususally after already putting in a full day ie. 22-24 hour day).

So, I go home to get some much needed beauty sleep, and I am awakened to pull some young buck out of the mud. Kid takes a bit of a 'tude with me, but not before I question his common sense to his face. A kid with either very little experience or very little common sense being called out to his face about his "mistake" embarrasing him in the process. Not sure the kid got up that morning and said, "I think I'll stick my truck today". ON the other hand, when someone is going to help you, one should be a bit meek and respectful. Seems to be a "wash" here from a who's zooming who.

Well, more than once I have backed back down a road that I deemed wasn't passable. On the other hand, I have also made it through some "sticky" situations. and yes, I have been stuck a few times. I am 50 years young, so "been there, dun that" is my current montra......and yet I am still learning and admit it freely. One thing I have learned in 50 years is when to admit I am wrong and learn from it.

I probably would have pulled the kid out depending upon just how much of a 'tude he actually took with me. At the end after pulling him out, I also probably would have asked him if he had learned anything. If he gave me more crap, each Fedex truck has a number on it to report issues. Wouldn't have taken too much effort to file a complaint with Fedex on their driver's behavior, and send them a bill for pulling the truck out.

Lastly, I have a good relationship with the local police, and often have had coffee with them on Sat mornings to listen to stories about the idiots they deal with on a daily/weekly basis. I have a lot of respect for them after hearing the crap they have to put up with. I also know 1-2 young 'uns on the force that are no better than the idiots they are arresting, the only difference is, they are wearing the badge.

so, now that things have been put into perspective, what do you think?

bad1086, I normally don't get into spittin' matches on these boards, because it serves no purpose.

Take another look at what you posted. The police are the first ones to show up to help you or your family if there is an emergency.

If it was SgtBull, would you shoot him then or wait until he helped out and then put one in his back?

Common sense also comes into play in judging whether or not the driver meant to do what he did. From your post I take it you have never made a mistake. Just because your're older than him, and some sort of law enforcement, does not give you the right to be a smarta$$. That is how you were acting. The fact you pointed out your tractors were in a nice shed and were clean and going to stay that way is proof you acted in a poor manner. Should the driver have expected to be pulled out? No. Did you have the right to refuse pulling him out? Absolutely. Could you have handled the situation with more tact? Yes.

In Montana it is against the law to pull someone out of the ditch until the Sheriff is notified . My 2 cents.

That sounds like good sense to me.

I've got some nice cheese I could send you- to go with your....

Ben

he's just a green kid, hopefully he'll remove his diaper and put on his big boy pants one day and think like a 40 year old. On second thought, I know of some 40 year olds still in diapers!!

I was once young and I was stuck on a dirt road on a cold rainy day, went to an old farmers house, he jumped on his tractor and went the 3/4 mile to my truck and pulled me out and wouldn"t take anything for it, that was thirty some years ago, he just died last week at 95 and it was mentioned in his obituary that he never minded helping people out by getting on his tractor to pull them out of the ditch on that road.

If there was no signage, there is no way anyone can tell what condition a road is in. The lack of tracks could also indicate that the road had a very good base. Regardless of whether you were willing to pull him out or not, using your squad car and position to intimidate him was wrong and an abuse of your position. Very unprofessional! He made a mistake and got stuck on a road for crying out loud. It's not like he commited a felony and was leaving the scene of a crime. He was just trying to do his job and had no idea the road was just fixed up. I bet if he was bringing you parts, would have been a different story. You're also not the one who fixed up the road. Sorry, but I think you were the one that was out of line. Dave

I agree with you Wardner. Up here I was talking to the county about clearing snow on the dead end road that ends at my driveway. They said that if I cleared the snow and somebody still hit the ditch, for whatever reason, I could be held liable. That's why the counties maintain the roads. They could be liable in the event of injury or damage to a vehicle. Dave

Just thought i would thow in my 2 cents. My daughter ran off the road the other day on icy roads, by the time i got there an eldery gentleman had towed her out and was changing the tire because the rim was bent. Wouldn't except anything. The rear end was totaled after hitting a pole. She was shaken but alright. I would have to do the same for somebody. What goes around comes around. Have a nice day everyone.

Harold, your story reminds me of about 10 years ago when my (now 27 yr old) was starting to drive. He was in city limits of small community, and rounded the corner a bit too far over the center of street, and apparently shook the guy on the other lane of the street. That just happened to be an off duty county deputy. Nothing was done or said until that next day when he got back on duty, then he proceeded to come to our house beating on the door demanding to speak with my son. Wife was there and answered the door. Seeing his anger, she refused to bring my son to the door unless he had an arrest warrant(which he did not). He 'tore' out of the driveway, and the wife called me at work. After calling his boss (county sherrif) and explaining the incident the sherrif apparently spoke with the deputy, and called me back and said he had instructed the deputy on the proper technique of handling something like that when off duty (call an officer on duty to handle). Due to incidents such as this, my son still had little respect for law enforcement - which is very unfortunate, as there are good ones. But you know what they say about one bad apple. I know in this part of the country the apple cart is tilted the wrong way. (no inference to sgtbull intended).

You might check about rhe compensation, my dad used to be a road commisioner, and he has got.compensation from ignorant people who have willfully done damage to roads. Overloaded trucks, driving over freshly oiled n chipped roads, etc, I believe it is refereed to as destruction of public property.

Can not see where Sgt. Bull should be compensated for damage to public road. This whole thimg is making a mountain out of a mole hill if this is truly a dirt road all Sgt. Bull has to do is hitch one of those 9 tractors to a disk with drag behind it and fill the ruts right up. Have filled in knee deep ruts in fields and field roads dozens of times with disk and after rain or two you will never know they were there.

I had a thought last night, here in WI the townships/county have enough sense to "post the roads" when heavy vehicles will do damage. The only time of year this really applies is when the frost is coming out of the ground. The only people that can use the road that are overweight are milk trucks, snowplows, fire trucks, and school buses.

All our roads are passable unless posted. They do have most of the roads around here paved now but if I would have avoided any wet looking dirt road 15 years ago I wouldn't have gotten very far. There are a couple mud roads around but they are posted as such. They say something to the effect that the road is not maintained and to travel at your own risk.

(quoted from post at 15:02:57 01/10/11) I have pulled out several drivers. One ran the stop sign at a T intersection and went down a considerable hill on my property. Yeah, stupid.
But in my younger days, I was pulled out a few times myself.
Who knows when I might need help again?

Click to expand...

When I was 14 I burried a 670 MF in a hollow. I walked back to the farm got the 1370 White buried it, and then proceeded to bury the 1100 Massey trying to hual out the 1370.

My neighbor watched me do this and I finally asked him to help pull them out. He did and then asked me what I learned, I replied "I guess the third time wasn't the charm..."
Ever since then, I have no issue pulling someone out, we all make mistakes, underestimated conditions, and over estimate the equipment. Just likeI did. :lol:

First time I'll pull you out, second time your to stupid to be on the road, and third time I'll push you in deeper.

Unfit roads should be posted as a minimum maintenance road; at the least..

Why isn't that section of ""road"" closed all-together??? If you and the other local folks wish for a closure, it is worth a thought..

We had some simular ""roads"" in my area..... They are now closed..I cannot justify the waste
of tax dollars on a road that is not needed or fit to drive on..

Kelley--we have a driveway that 3 of us share. Was chip and seal until 5 years ago when the hill got washed out. Long story, but I paid for the full 1/2 mile of pavement only to be told by the other two that they couldn"t afford to pay their share--that was in 2006. We have a neighbor that doesn"t even connect to our property (does to one of the others that shares the driveway) tell a logger that he could use our driveway since it was a "Common Access" roadway! No one asked us or even mentioned it. When we started to have trucks hauling from the rear of our property, I put a stop to it. The neighbor who told them they could use the road came flying up to the barn mad as a wet hen and wanted to know what my authority was to shut them down. Told him that it was a private driveway--not a public thoroughfare--especially for hauling logs. When I asked him why they weren"t using his driveway, he said it would tear up his pavement! DUH!!! So I agree with you--common sense has flown the coop. We have FEDEX leaving packages at our house all the time--not ours!! Won"t go into that but you never know who or what they are gonna do!! Good luck getting that settled.

Interesting. Look at it a different way. Yesterday morning a neighbor came over and said he needed the help of a tractor. Fired up the H and drove over to his place. There was a loaded propane truck stuck half way up the hill. The H pulled him on up with no problem. The driver was no kid and had plenty of experience. He grew up on the farm. He was simply trying to get the neighbors propane tank filled. The tractor did tear the heck out of the back road and part of the yard. Not a word was said on either side except Thanks for the help. I'd do it again if someone needed me and my tractor.

I think the reason for the squad car coming out, wasn't to intimidate the guy, but to let him know that you never know who he might be getting an attitude with. I didn't hear anything about a citation, just an offer to have a tow called out. If he left ruts the length of the road, he had ample opportunity to stop, back out, and find another route.

I hate GPS. When I got my cell through Sprint, they gave me 30 days free trial on it. I was sitting still, and as the wind rocked the truck it was moving me about 400 feet. And it took me three miles from the house, to the first place in the next zip code, and told me I was home. Good thing I knew better, huh? I doubt Roy would have appreciated me walking in like I owned the place.

Last winter I was down with a busted knee and had to have blood drawn weekly. The visiting nurses kept getting lost or stuck. They would come off I-79, go down the hill, and come up through the swamp bottom on a road that is never in good shape. Then it would tell them to turn left instead of right. Or they would turn at the top of the hill, where they should have, on a blacktop road, and get to the right road, but it would turn them right instead of left.

More than once I have stopped the truck on the side of the road to make a call and make sure I was on the right road, or about to turn on the right road. A few times even in the middle of the road.

(quoted from post at 10:04:19 01/15/11) you never know who he might be getting an attitude with.

Click to expand...

There is nothing in the original story that even hints that the truck driver had "an attitude". That just shows up in some of the indignant responses and the guy telling the story.

If the GPS thinks it is a road, there is only one reason for that. The agency responsible for it says it is a road. If they don't want people driving on it, they need to not only put up signs saying something like "road closed", but need to take it off their own maps and road reports. They probably don't want to do that because the county, state or whoever is most likely subsidizing them by the mile. They are probably even getting "homeland security" funds for patroling it.

It seems to me that this oinker cop was just wanting to throw his weight around to some poor kid that was just having a bad day... Tell me, SgtBull, what was it like to be made fun of in middle school?