December 7th

May we all take a moment to thank those that are still with us and pray in thanks to the Lord for those that laid down their lives for us this day. To preserve our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and the other rights that the abundant fatheads are gradually taking away. And I want to say I wish each of you a Merry Christmas, not a nice winter holiday. Now I am going to break the law but stating that I pray in public and I am a Christian and all I want are the same rights as the rest of the world. If the nnalert people have the right to kill us in the name of religion I should have the right to defend my life for the same reason. If my children are forced to study other religions such as the nnalert faith in school then they should have the right to their own Christian prayers in the same school.

In the Declaration of Independence it says

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

This will most likely be misconstrued as an anarchist remark but I think that soon this very foundation of what we have will be put to the test. Ma all patriots gather together in prayer and thanksgiving for those that defended our right to do this. Sincerely and with love for all men. LarryT

Local school board lets the nnalert students go to a teachers office to pray how do you like that

Amen brother!

Larry; I like your post. Good for you for posting your beliefs/feelings; I really like the fathead part. However, I learned last election you will likely get lambasted or even the post removed, for such truths, so put on your IH pith helmet! I agree with Bill O'Rielly, we didn't call the Japanese attack on US something that was done by moderate hyphenated Japanese. signed; a Norwegian hyphenated American.

I will stand proudly beside you Larry!!

We hold a thursday morning prayer group at our school by the flagpole.

I learned last election you will likely get lambasted or even the post removed, for such truths

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Truth has nothing to do with it... It's about what's on-topic for this forum, and this ain't it.

Soooo, before you line up the chorus to hum "Battle Hymn of the Republic" while you stand on your soap box in front of an American flag to lament the injustice of this thread being deleted think about this:

This is a PRIVATE forum. The owner and moderator have final say in what stays and what goes.

The right to own and operate a PRIVATE forum and have absolute say in what goes on in that forum is EXACTLY what our American fighting forces fight and die for every day.

I see I hit a nerve with Mr. mkirsch. I did 28 months 2 weeks and 18 days in southeastern Asia in the early 70's. I had no idea at the time why I was there but I would bet that you were one of the ones on this side that I risked my like so that you could have the freedom to make threats and express whatever shallow thoughts you might have. May my God, or your God be with you. Luck favors fools.
I will say no more on this subject as it seems that to speak ones mind is not to be accepted but to be met wit contempt.

This post is not meant to diminish the sacrifice of the 2400 sailors and Marines who lost their lives at Pearl Harbor. I just want to provide some balance.

There are people who believe that Japan was goaded by FDR. And twenty years later, we used the false Gulf of Tonkin incident to escalate the Vietnam War. Who knows what history will write about Iran and Afganistan? It will most likely have something to do with oil and money.

And the Civil was wasn't about preserving the Union or freeing the slaves. Its roots were economic and the control that the Northern businessmen wanted to retain.

Click below for an article on the Pearl Harbor Attack.
Pearl Harbor

Well said Larry T and Amen.

If you like to discuss politics and who is patriotic and who is not try New Off Topic forum and you can get your fill. I believe that people that pay the bills for this forum request that religion, politics and such be kept off.

Well said Larry Like many of us I did some time across the pond I have the t-shirt and scars to prove it. It seems you did hit a nerve with one person. I have been on this site for two years and have noticied that [most] questions, comments or ideas hit a nerve with mkirsch and that [many not all] of his posts are in the form of a put down or [you need to learn ]. Thankfully most folks are very helpful. Semper Fi Steve Lambert

I rev up my 1953 cub full throttle and my 1959 ,140 full throttle .In salute to you . Amen brother !!
Thumbs up red thumb at that !

Hi Wardner: I tend to agree with the concept that there are always two sides to every story and your link to questions about actions our White House took are, and have been, in the background since WW-2. Your link should be added to most High School History books.
I also agree with your comments on Vietnam. The Sec. of Defence spent many years later in his life regretting our role in Vietnam. ( He was in on the Gulf of Tonkin farce.) I sent my younger brother strong letters, back then, to stay away from duty in that dirty War. Freedom from a country of rice paddy people.. Really..
ag. ret.

Semper Fi

It struck a nerve with me. It should strike a nerve with ALL of you...

How would you feel if someone told you what you could do with your personal property? So many of you fought, and so many died for these rights and freedoms. It doesn't give you the right to take them away from someone else.

AMEN!! I wish ALL AMERICANS thought this same way!!

It is bewildering to me that you know so much more about American History than Pulitzer Prize winning historians. The idea that FDR was engaged in a conspiracy to use japan as a "back door to war" is supported only by Roosevelt haters and right wing crackpots.

Famous historians have wrestled with the causes of the Civil War since the war began and you have reduced it to a single simplistic event! Take a course in basic American History in order to restrain yourself from such absurd remarks.

A Pulitzer Prize does not prove or disprove a historian's capability to analyze an event. Why is it so hard to believe that somebody has the capability and intent to goad a party into performing a certain action. A gentleman in the community here was trying not too long ago pick a fight with his neighbor over a parking issue and even went so far to discharge a firearm in the neighbor's yard (it's all on record at this point with the County Sheriff). He never intended to harm the other neighbor with the firearm but did want to smack him in a fist fight. Roosevelt was noted by a number of historians as having an aggressive and calculating personality. Why is it so hard to believe on an international level when it happens so much on a local level. I would say most of the Sheriff's departments in small communities spend a very significant amount of time following up on domestic disturbances like that. A lot of the people that wind up in Washington came out of the smaller communities that have problems like that.

HI NY 987: It is a common tactic for a Commander to send out a smaller unit closer to the enemy just to get a reaction. In a small squad on patrol, there is the "point" man. Peral Harbor equipment and men were a "relitive small" part of the total US Armed forces but big enough to suck in an attack from Japan.. Makes sence, even now. By the way NY 987, I liked reading you comments over on Tractor Talk. ag.. ret.

For anyone interested in the political, economic, and constutitional roots of the American Civil War, a great book is "The Rise and Fall of the Confederate Government" by Jefferson Davis. It's available for free on the Internet (at the Gutenberg Project, if I remember correctly.) It's long, but it's well worth reading if you have any interest at all in the subject.

Mark W. in MI

Hi, Larry T. I deeply appreciate and agree with your main post, as it has all of my own sentiments. Also thank you for your own service to our country. It does not go unnoticed for me, as I have multiple people in my family who have also risked their lives. And no matter what anyone says about FDR, and Pearl Harbor, it does not take away from 2 facts.

1. The Japanese attacked before a declaration of war was delivered in Washington.
2. That an estimated 2,400 lives were lost in defense of not some one elses country, but OUR country.

Thankyou for your post.

I don't know about that comment. I think Roosevelt was a great president....I also think he goaded Japan into attacking to get us into the war. He had intel on what Hitler was doing....thats a fact....he tried to get congress to allow us into that war and was refused....our policies dealing with Japan forced them by thier code of honor to do something, you gonna tell me that no in the state department or and advisor's had any knowledge of the Japanese mind set???

Rick

Larry, by THIER creator....whoever it may be. A lot of the framers of the constitution were atheist and didn't want religion forced on them.....under God was added to the pledge in the 40's.....

Rick (oldtanker, retired Army disabled vet)

(quoted from post at 12:10:14 12/08/10) Larry, by THIER creator....whoever it may be. A lot of the framers of the constitution were atheist and didn't want religion forced on them.....under God was added to the pledge in the 40's.....

Rick (oldtanker, retired Army disabled vet)

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I believe 3 of the 39 signers of the Constitution were believed to be atheists, the rest had some Christian affiliation.
Many people think that there is something written in the Constitution or "Bill of Rights" (first 10 amendments) about the separation of church and state.... not so. The 1st amendment starts off "Congress shall make no law respecting [b:7a85f179f0]an establishment of religion[/b:7a85f179f0]", intended to prevent a church like the "Church of England", established by the British government, or a state sanctioned religion.
Like it or not, the framers of the Constitution [b:7a85f179f0]did[/b:7a85f179f0] intend the United States to be a "Christian" country. This of course does not mean we should be intolerant of other religions, atheists or agnostics.
However, none of this has much to do with Farmalls, McCormick Deerings or Internationals, or even Case-IHs.