PTO Problems on 450 - A little long.

I'm posting this for a neighbor who is having problems with his 1958 Farmall 450 PTO. We do hay and such together so my tractors are getting used a disproportion amount of the time. I have nothing newer then a 1954 SM-TA and have little knowledge of the workings of his 450. The problem is that he goes about 150 feet or less with the PTO engaged as in mowing or baleing and it just slips or doesn't provide power to the implement any longer. He is of the impression there are some slipping clutches in the PTO unit. My parts catalog for the SM-TA indicates it is driven through a planetary gear set-up at least on my tractor. Was the clutch type PTO intrtoduced on the later 460 series tractors and does he have the planet gear arrangement as on the SM-TA? What is involved in rebuilding his existing PTO unit or are exchange rebuilt units available somewhere and the better way to go? Is this a common 450 problem? I guess a workable salvage unit from a good tractor might be an option. He also is in need of a rebuilt hydraulic pump up front in order to use the disc mower - what is a good source for that item also? Thanks for your comments and my email if open if you care to respond in that manner. Thanks for any assistance in this matter, Hal.

Hal: Some of the last 450s had the clutch type PTO. If the PTO looks same as your SMTA, then it will be planetary. The clutch type PTO look quite different.

Either way the parts are not big dollars to fix. Getting someone who knows what he is doing will cost you more.

You can remove those units, either type and continue to use the tractor for draft jobs. You don't have to drain transmission-rear end, just park the tractor with front wheels about 2' lower than back. Remove the 4 bolts that hold unit in place, then it will pull right out. If your going to continue to use tractor while PTO is being rebuilt, there is a short shaft and two couplers you must remove. They are held in place by PTO, and will slip out easily. Then cut a piece of 3/4" plywood large enough to cover hole. Drill 4 holes matching the PTO mount bolt pattern, then bolt it in place with shorter bolts.

I ran my 300 and 560 this way several times.

If he has the planetary type, I would try adjusting the bands first if he hasn't done that. The manual gives the procedure for that. The planetary type has bands in there that engage and disengage the planetary gear system and break the implement to a stop. These bands are wet type bands and if you go to purchase new ones, the cheapest price I could find was over $300 each (times 2). I took mine to a brake relining company and they relined mine for about $60 each and they did a really nice job. It isn't an easy job rebuilding those PTO units I found out. There are lots of pieces and some are hard to get apart. It amazed me how IHC engineers could have designed such a complicated system for just turning the PTO on and off.

I think pumps can be purchased from many different supply companies. I think they are expensive if I remember right, like over $600. Roger

I would check to see if there is pressure on the system. Then look at the spline in the back of the main clutch, as if it wears out it would give about that much torque till it stopped. The tractor will have to be split and the pressure plate in there replaced and probably the splined sleeve too. if this is the problem.

(quoted from post at 20:14:14 08/29/09) Hal: Some of the last 450s had the clutch type PTO. If the PTO looks same as your SMTA, then it will be planetary. The clutch type PTO look quite different. .....

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I believe that the change to over center clutch style from planetary style occurred during the the 460/560/660 production run.

Owen: I thought that as well, however my neighbor had a 350 with clutch type pto. I've since seen a 450 with it as well. I remember the 350 since it was very near new, I know it was never changed. 450 may have been changed, but you and I know that is a lot of work.

Owen and Hugh, I looked at the tractor this afternoon and it is in fact just like my SM-TA with the planetary type PTO. What got him confused is that our IH dealership told him he would have the clutch type PTO on his tractor so you know the handicap we deal with at our nearer IH support group. Thanks for your replies, Hal.

Roger, thanks for your reply and I looked at the tractor this afternoon and it in fact does have the planetary type PTO. I'm giving him the information I received and I believe I've heard about getting the bands relined with new friction material before as the way to go. Thanks again, Hal.

Thanks for your reply but after looking at his tractor he has the planetary type PTO like on my SM-TA. Our closest Case-IH (or whatever their name is today) dealership told him it would be the clutch type on his 450 so that is why he was marching down that road for repairs. That is the type of support we get from our nearest IH repair folks so you can see what we have to deal with. Thanks again, Hal.