IH B-414 PTO clutch problem

flying farmer · Jun 11, 2009

The clutch has 2 discs(both a 9" and 11" I think). The 11" drive clutch is working fine but the 9" PTO clutch will not disengage the PTO shaft. I have been starting the engine with the PTO engaged but that is not really the solution I am looking for. In a previous thread, someone had mentioned that the disc might be "stuck". Is there any way to "unstick" the clutch disc or should I resign myself to a clutch replacement? Is there an inspection plate or dust cover that can be removed to have a look before I split the tractor? Google search shows a number of B-414s having this problem but I didn't find any solutions. Any ideas?
Flying farmer

Hugh MacKay · Jun 11, 2009

Flying Farmer: I think our resident British IH tractor guys are at a tractor show in Great Britain. You might yell at MJ and JimB, they may be at a tractor show, but I can't see them not checking in.

farmerjohn · Jun 11, 2009

You are pushing the clutch all the way down? There is one position to disengage the transmission and push down further to disengage the pto. I remember learning to drive our B-414 as a kid and had to stand and put all my weight on the pedal to get it down to the pto position.

Seeing Red · Jun 11, 2009

Check to see if the PTO engage lever has possibly come disconnected from the sliding collar. This has happened twice on ours with the PTO engaged. If my memory is correct there is a roll pin that breaks on the engage lever. Not hard to fix, just take out three bolts on the PTO lever and pull the assembly out, replace the roll pin and re-install.

flying farmer · Jun 11, 2009

(quoted from post at 17:52:57 06/11/09) You are pushing the clutch all the way down? There is one position to disengage the transmission and push down further to disengage the pto. I remember learning to drive our B-414 as a kid and had to stand and put all my weight on the pedal to get it down to the pto position.[/quot

I set the clutch pedal height with the adjusting screw to specs and the freeplay with the clamping bolts on the clutch shaft to specs. The pedal goes to about 1/8" above the footplate. I admit that I also checked to see if a little more pedal travel and a little less freeplay might work but it made no difference so I reset both to specs. All it feels like is the main clutch. There is no difference in the effort required anywhere in the pedal stroke or pedal "feel" that might indicate that another set of springs were being depressed to engage the PTO clutch. I need to look at the manual again to see if the PTO friction could get rusted to the pressure plate or spline and prevent the clutch from disengaging. The tractor was not used for a long time before I bought it.

flying farmer · Jun 11, 2009

The PTO engage lever engages and disengages the PTO properly when the engine is stopped or if the PTO shaft is not connected to anything. I think the lever assembly is OK but I will pull it out and have a look. Still need to get the clutch to stop the spinning shaft so it can engage the PTO smoothly.
Flying Farmer

flying farmer · Jun 11, 2009

Sorry, I'm new to this. How do you "yell" at someone?
Flying Farmer

Hugh MacKay · Jun 12, 2009

Flying Farmer: In this case I don't think it matters, if JimB is on here and sees the title, B-414 PTO clutch problem, he'll jump in. Nothing happened over night, so they must be away from their computers. Some folks will draw attention by putting a guys name in their title, the fact that you have said 414 clutch problem, will get the attention of both, but they have to be online.

Jim Lives in Eastern Ontario and MJ in England. Couple weeks back I noticed some discussion between them. Jim was going to meet MJ at one of several tractor shows in England, and it was to happen this week.

Anonymous-0 · Jun 12, 2009

Yes Hugh you are right, last weekend i was at a big tractor show in Yorkshire and JB2 met up with me. We had a good chat but i had to leave him as i was doing the commentry for the ring parade. About 450 tractors attended starting with the real old ones including 1897 Hornsby Ackroyd, 1903 Ivel and a 1912 Fairbanks Morse. Coming to the clutch problem take the cover off the bottom of the clutch housig. Now get some one to push the clutch pedal down to the bottom and you will see if the second stage of teh clutch is working. If the clutch pressure plate for the PTO clutch dose not move adjust the 3 bolt heads arround the outside of the PTO clutch pressure plate to get the PTO clutch to work. With your foot off the clutch the clearence under the adjusting bolt heads should be 080 th inch or the thickness of a Lucas ignition key. MJ

flying farmer · Jun 12, 2009

(quoted from post at 00:59:43 06/12/09) Flying Farmer: In this case I don't think it matters, if JimB is on here and sees the title, B-414 PTO clutch problem, he'll jump in. Nothing happened over night, so they must be away from their computers. Some folks will draw attention by putting a guys name in their title, the fact that you have said 414 clutch problem, will get the attention of both, but they have to be online.

Jim Lives in Eastern Ontario and MJ in England. Couple weeks back I noticed some discussion between them. Jim was going to meet MJ at one of several tractor shows in England, and it was to happen this week.

Thanks Hugh. Looks like MJ has jumped in.
Flying Farmer

flying farmer · Jun 12, 2009

MJ:
Thanks for the quick response. This will really help. I have the service manual and it shows how to perform the adjustment you are talking about. It shows it with the clutch and flywheel, removed from the tractor and sitting on a shop bench. It does not indicate, anywhere, that there is the ability to remove a cover plate and watch the clutch operating or perform this adjustment on the clutch without splitting the tractor. The assumption, I suppose is that anyone qualified to be working on the tractor would have training or experience on the particular model. Thank you very much for the valuable advice. It will be a day or 2 before I can perform this adjustment but I will keep you posted on the results.
I realize that the clutch may still be worn and require replacement and that I may need to add this to my list of things to do, but this forum is a tremendous help. Thanks to all who responded for taking the time and interest to help.

Flying Farmer

flying farmer · Jun 12, 2009

(quoted from post at 03:02:43 06/12/09) Yes Hugh you are right, last weekend i was at a big tractor show in Yorkshire and JB2 met up with me. We had a good chat but i had to leave him as i was doing the commentry for the ring parade. About 450 tractors attended starting with the real old ones including 1897 Hornsby Ackroyd, 1903 Ivel and a 1912 Fairbanks Morse. Coming to the clutch problem take the cover off the bottom of the clutch housig. Now get some one to push the clutch pedal down to the bottom and you will see if the second stage of teh clutch is working. If the clutch pressure plate for the PTO clutch dose not move adjust the 3 bolt heads arround the outside of the PTO clutch pressure plate to get the PTO clutch to work. With your foot off the clutch the clearence under the adjusting bolt heads should be 080 th inch or the thickness of a Lucas ignition key. MJ

MJ:

I really did not have time today to look at the clutch solution you proposed, but I couldn't help myself. I put everything else on hold and just went out to just have a look. I took off the quarter-moon shaped plate and saw the wrong side of the flywheel. You couldn't have meant the large rectangular plate on the bottom with the heavy gasket, but you did and it was not filled with oil as I had presumed. Adjustment gap was 4 times the .080 spec and a screwdriver blade inserted showed the plate moving when the clutch was pressed. Adjustments made, clutch working as designed, screws dropped in grass found, plates re-installed and tractor is ready to cut the grass on the runway. Better get back to work!
Thanks again to all who responded and Farmer John was correct, it does take a lot of pedal effort to engage the second clutch.

Flying Farmer

Hugh MacKay · Jun 12, 2009

MJ: Speaking of Yorkshire, do Atkinson's still build lime spreaders. I had one of those for years, don't see them advertised here in Canada anymore. I think the name of the town was Clithrow. May not have that spelling right.

deyobd12 · Jul 18, 2009

Hello, I have my sisters BH414 and am unable to engage the Power take off. I pulled the PTO engagement lever out by removing three bolts as described. It seems like the rolling pin had been modified or manipulated. (very end of engagement lever). Im not very savy when it comes to mechanical things like this. Just wondering if you have any advice where I could start to try and fix problem. It seems like engagement lever is not working. PTO not spinning at all. Not for certain how engagement lever activates PTO. Thanks for advice.

IH B-414 PTO clutch problem

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